diesel question

[dexterfarm]

After having lots of old tractors. I bought a new mf 4710. The book said do not add fuel additives. So I did not after all the diesel at the gas station is suppose to be good for winter weather. It hit around zero. the tractor started but ran a little ruff and did knock and would not accelerate well. It never died. It did through a tone of low fuel pressure codes. I put power service in. the next day it ran good but still through the low pressure codes.
I did not put in the 911 I read it can be bad. will the regular winter power service clear this up. the temp here is not going to warm up much if any.

 

[Dieseltech]

If they have Bio diesel you DON'T want that in cold weather, it won't go through filters well when cold. If you can't get number one fuel you could add some kerosene to thin fuel down some for cold weather.

 

[dexterfarm]

no where on the pumps said anything about bio diesel. I think but could be wrong they have to put that on the pump.
I also have no idea what was in the tractor from the dealer. It was about half full when I got it from the dealer 2 weeks ago.
Do you think the power service that I put in will un gell the existing fuel. Or will that only happen after it gets warm again. It must have done something because it ran better the next day or maybe it was just warmer the next day. but still had a problem. giving error codes. forecast for the next week up an down anywhere from upper 20s to -15 F

 

[Jim.ME]

Have you changed the fuel filter(s) since this started? They will "wax" over if the fuel isn't right in cold weather and may be close to plugged up. People warm them to melt the "wax" and get going, but changing is the answer. The fuel conditioner will help what is in the tank but very seldom does much to clear the filter once they plug. The 911 is supposed to cut through the "waxing", but changing the filter soon after is recommended. I keep spare fuel filters on hand year round.

No telling what the fuel in it is. If it has been setting on lots before you bought it, it may not have been cut to winter blend. Use the heaviest dose they recommend of conditioner. Depending on tank size, how much fuel a station pumps, and delivery time date; the fuel may or may not be full winter blend. Don't know where you're located but around here, if the vendor doesn't mix winter blend until December first and the station got a delivery on November 28th, it wasn't winter blend fuel. A few gallons of K1 may help as well. Just my experiences and opinion.

 

[marloweg]

call your dealer seeing it is new and they put the fuel in it good dealer should make it right

 

[moresmoke]

Biggest thing with modern diesel injection systems is not to use any additives with alcohol in them. The alcohol will destroy some of the coatings on the fuel
system internals.

 

[Phil Tibbetts]

Hard telling how long the fuel has been in there. I would drain it put fresh fuel that you know is winter grade and replace the fuel filter.
I think that will solve your problem. I just had a battle with my orange Jap tractor because I bought fuel that I thought must be winter
grade in November from a local filling station. Filter was totally clogged with wax. New filter kerosene and some diesel 911 and I was good
to go. Don't think 911 will hurt your tractor. IMO

 

[dexterfarm]

day 4 and I think it has cleared itself up. Started and ran good plenty of power and no codes and alarms now. So the answer seems to be yes the white bottle power service will clear up the wax but takes time. Also it did still start and run just not great So the fact the fuel still flowed somewhat probably helped it ungel. Didnt hurt that we had a heat wave yesterday hit 25F. Good thing cause next week forecast high of -7F.
I think the fuel I put in should have been good. Local station that was just redone 2 years ago all new tanks. It doesnt get a lot of traffic coming threw but I do routinely see semis filling up there with as much as they hold I suspect they go through diesel pretty quick. But who knows how old the stuff was that was in it from the dealer/factory.
I did check on power service and the 911 is the only product they have that has alcohol in it and it says it is a type that will not harm the fuel system components.
Lesson learned use power service no matter what they say the diesel temperature should be good for. I feed about 1000 lbs of hay a day and cant afford an issue.
Thanks everyone for the responses.

 

[Jim.ME]

Using an anti-gel conditioner is a good thing. However, I would be changing that fuel filter(s) if you didn't. I doubt all your wax in the filter is gone. I have a filter from the pump on a bulk tank setting in a heated (65F +)shop. It has been there since I pulled it out 2 days ago because it waxed up. 50% of the wax is still on/in it. The tank was cleaned and dried and has a water sock in it. The tank was dosed heavily with Power Service when it was filled. At least be sure you have spare filters on hand, the cold will be back.

 

[Phil Tibbetts]

Good advice, change the filter or you will have more trouble. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[dexterfarm]

I am sure those filters will cost a fortune. It has 2 spin on filters. one of them has a wire plug on the bottom of it.

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 11:43:15 01/25/19)
I am sure those filters will cost a fortune. It has 2 spin on filters. one of them has a wire plug on the bottom of it.

Yes, it is likely they will cost plenty. I looked up the part numbers on the AGCO parts books on line and I couldn't get the Massey numbers to cross to Wix or Baldwin. It also appears two different pre-filters were used, that's the one with the wire, so you may want to have the numbers from the filters, if they are on them, when you go for filters. In the parts book it shows as the pre-filter not sold separate from the wire (alarm). They also have the pre-filter and main filter in a kit. You can try changing just the pre-filter. You might luck out and find the pre-filter plugged and not the main filter. I would still want spares of both on hand if I needed the tractor to run. The cost perspective comes down to cost of the filters compared to the value of the loss of the use of the tractor when you need it.

 

[hd6gtom]

If it gets to below zero and stays there you need to be running straight #1 fuel in your tractor. Most truck
stop/convieience store diesel is not a premium grade #2 fuel. You need to be running premium #2 fuel in your
tractor. #2 fuel starts to gell at 20-25 degrees. You need to be running a 25%#1/75%#2 fuel at those temps.
If it is going to stay between 0 and 25 degrees you should have a 50/50 blend. I spent 14 years owning a farm
fuel business and spent hundreds of hours in fuel testing including all types of blends. My large farmers got
their fuel tanks blended 50/50 in mid October. When they got refilled in Nov or Dec it was with a straight #1
and that was run till end of Feb or March. As far as running the stuff in the bottles, it cannot be depended
on to keep your fuel from jelling. Experience speaking.

 

[dexterfarm]

any concerns with lubrication using #1 diesel?
Dont know where to get #1 at. I dont think anyone has it around here. What about mixing in kerosene?

 

[Jim.ME]

Where are you located, general area? Just curious.

hd6gtom gave you good advice in his post.

If you are using over the road, or off road, fuel from a filling station, I would mix at least 25% Kerosene with the fuel, more if it is going to be below 0F for long, if you can't get #1 and use a fuel conditioner with lubrication as well as anti-jell formulation. Can/will they tell you what grade fuel (and cut ratio if any) they have in their tank? Just my thoughts.

If you are concerned with warranty try putting your dealer on the spot and get him to make a recommendation, in writing, you should follow for cold weather fuel. Is that info in the manual for your tractor?

 

[Tony in Mass.]

This depressing thread reminds me of something I read years ago about luxury cars. A new owner in Scotland wrote to Mr Ferrari complaining that his car didn't start in cold weather. Ferrari wrote back 'dear sir, if you can afford one of my automobiles, you can afford a heated garage'.
Jim and Tom have the best ideas yet, -first ask the dealer what the alternatives are, what the techs would advise if this tractor was in... ??? Edmonton Alberta, or Sept Isle Quebec... or Fairbanks Alaska... if they don't sell this model there, they should not have offered it to you. Someone, some hardware store that sells propane, some one must sell kerosene at the pump- some where. An additive- I use Howe's in my underground heating fuel oil tank... cause underground just ain't warm enough anymore for modern messed with oils.
But, if a heated garage isn't on the agenda, a block heater, any heat will help starting, but holy cow, when it's 10 below F and the wind chill is 40 below, it will jell in the tank as you are working. Got to blend kerosene- which is...$4 a gallon? Or the Howes, at $40 a gallon... as far as lube... yeah holy cow what is the motor oil NOT doing in those temps? This is a poster child for Texas real estate....

 

[dexterfarm]

We are in central Iowa.
talked with the dealer yesterday. He his not very close to us but said they have had problems with their local stations not blending fuel but rather trying to just add additive to number 2 and selling it that way. He said they tried to pin them down to exactly what fuel they are selling but had a hard time getting a strait answer. He advised adding some kerosene to the tank.
the owners manual says use winter blend but does not spell out what that is. It does say do not add additive to the fuel.
It has a block heater. I checked the temp of the block and it was 87 after being plugged in all day. but that does not do anything for the fuel filters. there is an optional factory fuel heater that goes into the prefilter housing it is 12 volt. Does not say what wattage it is. I am sure it would work good on a situation where you were using the tractor for hours at a time. just wonder how much it would really do for short daily usage. I did order some aftermarket 150 watt pad heaters to put around the fuel filters.
To cold right now to work on anything outside. single digit highs and lows today. I plan to put out all the hay I need for this week before the temp takes a dive tonight. By weekend we should be around freezing. It should not have a problem then. Hopefully I will have those heaters on before the next temp dive.

 

[Jim.ME]

I think there is more of the use of additives being done than real blending, in many cases now. Cutting your fuel with kerosene will most likely take care of your problem. If you cut with a high ratio of kerosene I would recommend you continue to use a conditioner with lubrication additives, which Power Service says they have.

I keep spare fuel filters on hand for everything, including the bulk tank, cheap insurance.

I know International/Navistar used heaters in the fuel filters on some of their trucks and the V8 diesels they made for Ford. I have to believe they helped some, its one of those things you never know for sure if there would have been a problem with out them. Several makers of aftermarket fuel filters have heaters in them. Your pad heaters will start you out with warm fuel in the filters. The filters will cool to the temperature of the incoming fuel once it runs a few minutes. With the fuel filters and engine warm it should help warm the fuel tank quicker. They do make stick on 12 volt heating pads, but you shouldn't need to go to those. JMHO

Jim

 

[dexterfarm]

I called the gas stations corp headquarters and was told it was 50% #1, 47% #2, and 3%bio
of course just because that is what they think is in there tank does not mean that was really what was delivered.
tractor would not stay running the other day at 0deg. when it warms up this weekend I am going to add 5 gal kerosene and drive it around a bit to mix it up.

 

[Jim.ME]

Did you change the fuel filters and it won't stay running with the new filters? You may need that optional heater inside the pre-filter to keep warming the incoming fuel going through the filters. The pad heaters you ordered, are they 120 volt so they only work to warm the filters when parked?

 

[dexterfarm]

no I have not changed the filters yet. I ordered the pre filterer heater. Should be in next week. That will include a filter change. yes the heat pads are 120v. I have not got those yet but will put them on when I get them. May not ever need to use the pad heaters but it would be nice to have them on there and ready to go should they be needed. As long as it will start then the pre heater should have no problem warming the fuel.

 

[dexterfarm]

update now that winter seems to be over. I got the internal heated prefilter and new filters put on. We did not have anymore extreme cold after that but still got cold. No issues until we hit 0 F then the low pressure warnings came on after startup but seamed that the filter heater was able to heat up fast enough that it did not effect running. I did not put the 120v heated filter pads on yet primarily because I wanted to see what the prefilter heater will do. I will put them on for next winter in case they are needed. probably a good idea to use those below 0 so the filters are warm at startup. I would conclude if you plan to use this tractor at say 15 deg f or below the prefilter heater is a must have.