Distributer Parts

[Steve46]

Long time reader first time post. I didn’t want to hijack anyone thread but I’ve been seeing a lot of posts about poor quality parts and wanted to get some help and advice. I have 3 sets of breaker plates and all of them will not allow timing to be set unless it’s all the way advanced. Additionally replacing the points requires destroying the old set, modifying the new set to fit over the pin and if I’m lucky I can set the gap. Two of the plates are new and purchased from this site in the past year and yes there’s a long story here but I hope to spare you but suffice to say it’s snowballed.

Specs: '46 2N, front mount, 12 volt w/ 6V sq can coil, original since I owned the tractor(28 years)

So I guess the basic question is, has anybody had similar problems or was I just lucky to 2 bad plates? What can I do? Buy another plate?

Steve

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 14:51:39 12/16/13) Long time reader first time post. I didn’t want to hijack anyone thread but I’ve been seeing a lot of posts about poor quality parts and wanted to get some help and advice. I have 3 sets of breaker plates and all of them will not allow timing to be set unless it’s all the way advanced. Additionally replacing the points requires destroying the old set, modifying the new set to fit over the pin and if I’m lucky I can set the gap. Two of the plates are new and purchased from this site in the past year and yes there’s a long story here but I hope to spare you but suffice to say it’s snowballed.

Specs: '46 2N, front mount, 12 volt w/ 6V sq can coil, original since I owned the tractor(28 years)

So I guess the basic question is, has anybody had similar problems or was I just lucky to 2 bad plates? What can I do? Buy another plate?

Steve

Get a diesel - longer life, more fuel efficient, and never worry about a spark ignition again ;-)

TOH

 

[Steve46]

I have one of those too with a bucket. I didn't for years and now wonder how I ever got along. One of the advantages of the 2n though is it's wide stance and low center of gravity...outperforms my 1520 on hills and in the woods

Steve

 

[Joe Scribner]

I can't speak from experience as my 8N was a
sidemount. I have heard that aftermarket plates are
not of the same quality as original. My advice is
to source a good original plate and go with a good
quality set of points from Blue-Streak or Echlin.
Other than doing that I'd consider Pertronix if you
don't want to keep playing with points. Just my
opinion, Joe.

 

[old]

Find a place that sells the blue streak points and try those. Many of the cheaper or non U.S. made points have problems like what your running into

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Replace the bushings.

That will solve the problem.
75 Tips

 

[Colin King]

I concur with Bruce's advice. The bushings are worn out and should be replaced. There are 2 bushings. Also check the lobes for excess wear on the weight assembly.

Colin, MN

 

[Steve46]

(quoted from post at 18:10:34 12/16/13) Replace the bushings.

That will solve the problem.
75 Tips

The snowball effect forced me to replace the dist. housing so the lower bushing is new and the upper bushing is also new. There's not much side play but there's a little. Should I still replace?


I did just put an order in for the Blue Steak set. Do I take this feedback as others have experienced the same problem with the breaker plate timing issue? I feel it's an issue with the manufacturing of the plate regarding setting the timing and was hoping others had experienced and found a solution.

 

[Charner MS]

You might trying the adjustment on the side of the distributor. Remove the distributor, 2 1/2 bolt of it. Note the small plate on the side. Move it up or down and this advances the spark and might solve your problem. If you put the coil on the top, hook up the hot line and ground the distributor case to the tractor, you can turn the shaft and see if there is a spark. Work with it until you get one.

 

[Colin King]

I'm not Bruce, but if you are still having problems, I would suspect the lobes on the cam are worn down at this point. Inspect them. The cam and weight assembly is expensive, but may be the next step.

Colin, MN

 

[steve 43]

I am having to advance timing so far that it leaves an opening by the hold down screw(in order to get gap rite)this is on complete reman front dist. I was looking at my oem and it does not leave an opening even when advanced all the way...where are you ordering blue streak from?

 

[Steve46]

Ordering from the store here. I don't have much time during the week so I'm hoping it will show up by the weekend. I found a crack in the old (assuming original) housing probably from when the old breaker plate broke. It was an 2 piece model and the upper bushing housing riveted to the plate gave way and I assume that's what cracked the original housing.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

As I said earlier, the likely suspect is bushings. Cam lobes are also a possibility as Colin said.

I own 4 front distributors; all work because all have been rebuilt by me w/ new bushings. I have no problem getting quality points to fit. I can easily get a gap of .018. And timing is not a problem either.

Get out your mic & check it out.

Here are the factory specs for a FM distributor:

Front Bushing ID .437

Rear Bushing ID .863

Front Shaft .436

Rear Shaft .863

Cam Flats .790

Cam Lobes .870
75 Tips

 

[Steve46]

(quoted from post at 21:53:18 12/16/13) As I said earlier, the likely suspect is bushings. Cam lobes are also a possibility as Colin said.

I own 4 front distributors; all work because all have been rebuilt by me w/ new bushings. I have no problem getting quality points to fit. I can easily get a gap of .018. And timing is not a problem either.

Get out your mic & check it out.

Here are the factory specs for a FM distributor:

Front Bushing ID .437

Rear Bushing ID .863

Front Shaft .436

Rear Shaft .863

Cam Flats .790

Cam Lobes .870
75 Tips

Thanks Bruce, I'll need to get a mic that measures to that degree and will report back. It may be a while but fortunately I do have another tractor. Based on the tolerances, I do believe that the new parts are out of tolerance. I will be surprised if they are out as all the parts are new but that's sort of the point of the post. New dist. housing with new lower bushing, new plates with new upper bushings and new dist cam. Use to buy parts from, well not really local, but local Ford/NH dealer.

 

[JMOR]

I didn't see where you quantified the amount by which you are unable to set the timing. Depending on the value it may be a non-issue. This is not super precision in an engine designed & built 60-70 years ago.

 

[pierce]

brand new made in (india,china) distributor, purchased from this site as mine was /really/ worn out, and i don't have the press to replace the bushings, plus it needed a new shaft, so I stupidly thought new would fix all.

ahahahaa.

first, new distributor, the pin the points ride on had a cotter pin made out of some kinda soft metal, it disintegrated when I tried to remove it. ended up filing the ends down so I could get the points off, will have to drill it out.

second, new distributor, even after all that filing, the base of that post/pin that the stator part of the points go over was too big, so I had to file it down (thank god I have a little jewelers file set), and widen the hole on the points.

third, the main part of the pin was too big for any of the 3 sets of points I have but the ones that came on it.

finally, get it all together. there's zero shaft play. counterweights are brand new and clean and move smartly to 'home'. set points gap to 0.015. distributor timing adjustment is nearly all the way retarded before the points will close at 1/4" from the hole, verified with dozens of re-adjusts and re-measurements.


*ARRRRGH*. anyways, it should work as-is for now, but I will need a new plate when it comes time to replace the points again, or go through all that hackery all over again.

 

[Steve46]

(quoted from post at 20:30:01 12/17/13) I didn't see where you quantified the amount by which you are unable to set the timing. Depending on the value it may be a non-issue. This is not super precision in an engine designed & built 60-70 years ago.

JMOR, To set the timing to 1/4 inch it has to be pretty much all the way advanced and this is on all 3 new breaker plates. I am following the FO4 manual as well as all the info I can get from this site and other sites. I've had the tractor for 28 years and never had this timing problem before. When it was running, the static timing settings, it ran rough(er) but retarding the timing resulted in a smoothed run but still misses at higher RPMs. I do suspect bad breaker plates manufacture and off spec between the timing adjustment tab and the top tab if that makes sense. It could be a number of problem why its missing and I'll running those down and seeking the advise of the experts on this board. I will check the specs on the bushings as Bruce recommended.

Sort of OT but when I replied to your post I saw pierce's post which didn't show up in the normal view of the thread. I'm sort of new to posting here so most likely op error

 

[pierce]

my post rolled over onto a 2nd page of this thread.

 

[Royse]

"Sort of OT but when I replied to your post I saw pierce's post
which didn't show up in the normal view of the thread. I'm sort
of new to posting here so most likely op error"

Probably not OP error Steve.
There are two views on this forum, modern and classic.
They synchronize in the background and sometimes there is a delay.

 

[Steve46]

Thanks,

Still not ruling out op error :lol: pierce, Sound like we have very similar problems but sounds like you required major mods to the plate. Need to run now but will add some info tomorrow.

Steve

 

[Hobo,NC]

Their are also some dist. shaft asy out their that are way off... Someone posted about this a few tears ago. I check a new one I had on the shelf and its way off also...

 

[Steve46]

(quoted from post at 21:53:18 12/16/13) As I said earlier, the likely suspect is bushings. Cam lobes are also a possibility as Colin said.

I own 4 front distributors; all work because all have been rebuilt by me w/ new bushings. I have no problem getting quality points to fit. I can easily get a gap of .018. And timing is not a problem either.

Get out your mic & check it out.

Here are the factory specs for a FM distributor:

Front Bushing ID .437

Rear Bushing ID .863

Front Shaft .436

Rear Shaft .863

Cam Flats .790

Cam Lobes .870
75 Tips

Bruce, Here are my measurements. got a good mic at a good price from advance auto and it will come in handy on other projects so..

Front Bushing ID .437 - .439

Rear Bushing ID .863 -.864

Front Shaft .436 - .436

Rear Shaft .863 = .864

Cam Flats .790 = .790

Cam Lobes .870 = .870

There is some precision to this but after a few measurements I'm pretty confident in the results.

Still need to get the new BS points in and see how that works. I hear you on the relationship between the points gap and timing but after 3 breaker plates all having the same timing issue i still think it's an issue with manufacturing of the plate and the relationship between the timing tab on the side and the top tab if your following me. Actually i don't advise following me as I'm a snowball..
:lol: got to rung and burn some dinner

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 04:15:37 12/19/13)

(quoted from post at 21:53:18 12/16/13) As I said earlier, the likely suspect is bushings. Cam lobes are also a possibility as Colin said.

I own 4 front distributors; all work because all have been rebuilt by me w/ new bushings. I have no problem getting quality points to fit. I can easily get a gap of .018. And timing is not a problem either.

Get out your mic & check it out.

Here are the factory specs for a FM distributor:

Front Bushing ID .437

Rear Bushing ID .863

Front Shaft .436

Rear Shaft .863

Cam Flats .790

Cam Lobes .870
75 Tips

Bruce, Here are my measurements. got a good mic at a good price from advance auto and it will come in handy on other projects so..

Front Bushing ID .437 - .439

Rear Bushing ID .863 -.864

Front Shaft .436 - .436

Rear Shaft .863 = .864

Cam Flats .790 = .790

Cam Lobes .870 = .870

There is some precision to this but after a few measurements I'm pretty confident in the results.

Still need to get the new BS points in and see how that works. I hear you on the relationship between the points gap and timing but after 3 breaker plates all having the same timing issue i still think it's an issue with manufacturing of the plate and the relationship between the timing tab on the side and the top tab if your following me. Actually i don't advise following me as I'm a snowball..
:lol: got to rung and burn some dinner

I am glad I don't have to waist my time measuring stuff like this... It seams like a waist of time can Y'all not push the dist shaft side to side and sorta guesstimate how much it affects point movement..... They are not a precession instrument nor are the top bushing and lower bushing in alignment ever its just not possible... A few tho one way are the other is not the end of the world...

If you wanted to be a perfectionist and really show how smart you are you would set it up and check point dwell while running it and adjust to satisfaction...

http://www.picoauto.com/tutorials/ignition-primary.html

You could adjust till you came up with a good average with a well worn dist and move on to checking out the babes on online dating...

 

[Steve46]

(quoted from post at 23:42:05 12/18/13)

(quoted from post at 04:15:37 12/19/13)

(quoted from post at 21:53:18 12/16/13) As I said earlier, the likely suspect is bushings. Cam lobes are also a possibility as Colin said.

I own 4 front distributors; all work because all have been rebuilt by me w/ new bushings. I have no problem getting quality points to fit. I can easily get a gap of .018. And timing is not a problem either.

Get out your mic & check it out.

Here are the factory specs for a FM distributor:

Front Bushing ID .437

Rear Bushing ID .863

Front Shaft .436

Rear Shaft .863

Cam Flats .790

Cam Lobes .870
75 Tips

Bruce, Here are my measurements. got a good mic at a good price from advance auto and it will come in handy on other projects so..

Front Bushing ID .437 - .439

Rear Bushing ID .863 -.864

Front Shaft .436 - .436

Rear Shaft .863 = .864

Cam Flats .790 = .790

Cam Lobes .870 = .870

There is some precision to this but after a few measurements I'm pretty confident in the results.

Still need to get the new BS points in and see how that works. I hear you on the relationship between the points gap and timing but after 3 breaker plates all having the same timing issue i still think it's an issue with manufacturing of the plate and the relationship between the timing tab on the side and the top tab if your following me. Actually i don't advise following me as I'm a snowball..
:lol: got to rung and burn some dinner

I am glad I don't have to waist my time measuring stuff like this... It seams like a waist of time can Y'all not push the dist shaft side to side and sorta guesstimate how much it affects point movement..... They are not a precession instrument nor are the top bushing and lower bushing in alignment ever its just not possible... A few tho one way are the other is not the end of the world...

If you wanted to be a perfectionist and really show how smart you are you would set it up and check point dwell while running it and adjust to satisfaction...

http://www.picoauto.com/tutorials/ignition-primary.html

You could adjust till you came up with a good average with a well worn dist and move on to checking out the babes on online dating...

Hmmm.... Don't think I need to get too precise but thanks... I think.... The cam shaft side play was minimul but I guess if the cam flats and lobes were off that would affect point gap and timing.

 

[Hobo,NC]

If they would have made them adjustable it would not be a issue...

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 14:51:39 12/16/13) Long time reader first time post. I didn’t want to hijack anyone thread but I’ve been seeing a lot of posts about poor quality parts and wanted to get some help and advice. I have 3 sets of breaker plates and all of them will not allow timing to be set unless it’s all the way advanced. Additionally replacing the points requires destroying the old set, modifying the new set to fit over the pin and if I’m lucky I can set the gap. Two of the plates are new and purchased from this site in the past year and yes there’s a long story here but I hope to spare you but suffice to say it’s snowballed.

Specs: '46 2N, front mount, 12 volt w/ 6V sq can coil, original since I owned the tractor(28 years)

So I guess the basic question is, has anybody had similar problems or was I just lucky to 2 bad plates? What can I do? Buy another plate?

Steve

teve, Pierce, et al; this is a perfect example of why you should repair old original parts whenever at all possible. What you see here is a new (no doubt, Chinee) advance assy and the old original. The slots for the flyweight pins are NOT even cut at the correct angles!!! Or maybe the slotted plate was assembled upside down? I wouldn't trust any of this stuff without careful comparison with the original.

 

[Steve46]

(quoted from post at 12:22:54 12/19/13)

(quoted from post at 14:51:39 12/16/13) Long time reader first time post. I didn’t want to hijack anyone thread but I’ve been seeing a lot of posts about poor quality parts and wanted to get some help and advice. I have 3 sets of breaker plates and all of them will not allow timing to be set unless it’s all the way advanced. Additionally replacing the points requires destroying the old set, modifying the new set to fit over the pin and if I’m lucky I can set the gap. Two of the plates are new and purchased from this site in the past year and yes there’s a long story here but I hope to spare you but suffice to say it’s snowballed.

Specs: '46 2N, front mount, 12 volt w/ 6V sq can coil, original since I owned the tractor(28 years)

So I guess the basic question is, has anybody had similar problems or was I just lucky to 2 bad plates? What can I do? Buy another plate?

Steve

teve, Pierce, et al; this is a perfect example of why you should repair old original parts whenever at all possible. What you see here is a new (no doubt, Chinee) advance assy and the old original. The slots for the flyweight pins are NOT even cut at the correct angles!!! Or maybe the slotted plate was assembled upside down? I wouldn't trust any of this stuff without careful comparison with the original.

Great example!!! I replaced the originakl cam several years ago because the tangs were so buggered up but I will check the set I've been running against the original set and the new set that cam with the new dist housing.