Drawbar Mount Questions

[Offbottom]

Hello Fellow Tractor Fellers,

1959 Ford 841

Two questions, both related to the drawbar mount under the rear end.

First, referring to the photo of the pin that goes thru both the mount and drawbar: there is a lock ring looking affair in a groove at one end. Does the pin come apart? Does that ring come off or what function does it provide? I assume the ring end goes on top and keeps the pin from falling out the bottom, does that sound right? Otherwise the pin appears to be the same diameter over its entire length. Any advice as to what (if any) sort of service or cleaning should be applied before re-assembly?

Second, referring to the photo of the underside of the rear end where the mount is bolted on. Removed the four bolts which was such a pleasure after 50 years of dirt and oil caked all over them. The mount came off and I was surprised to see five (5) holes, rather the the four (4) bolt holes. The fifth hole is in the middle between the two bolt holes closest to the rear of the tractor. That hole is sort of countersunk – tapered smaller towards the top of the tractor. What the devil is that there for? Should I do anything before putting it back together?

I bet I scraped 15 lbs of dirt off this thing just to be able to see it. I doubt it was ever off since it rolled off the assembly line.

Shop Cat is of no help. He won’t even wake up to look at the problem. Haha.

Hope you all have a Wonderful Thanksgiving. Despite our tractor troubles, we have a lot to be thankful for.

Appreciate your help. Thank you Fellers.

Country Dabe

 

[showcrop]

It is obvious that the right front hole has a helicoil in it, so I will go with they got loose and the threads got buggered so at one point they tried adding another bolt.

 

[bob p mn]

Have never seen a pin with a retaining ring like that. All the OEM drawbar pins I have seen look like that but with just a groove and a spring pin slides in from the side between the top of the bracket and the differential housing. The aftermarket swinging drawbar kits usually have a pin that is held by a 3 pt hitch pin clip on the bottom side.

 

[used red MN]

It is obvious that the right front hole has a helicoil in it, so I will go with they got loose and the threads got buggered so at one point they tried adding another bolt.

Not to argue, but why not this is YT! I can’t pull enough resolution when blowing up his photo to convince me the right front hole (lower left in his photo) has a Helicoil. It looks to me like the first few threads got pulled out of the casting. But hey, I might be wrong been there before. Only the word of the owner or a better photo will tell us.
To the OP: If you have a tap that size run it in the holes, if not if the bolts go in fairly easy squirt some penetrating juice on them and run them in and out a couple of times. Then use some brake clean to clean the holes and threads, apply some blue lock tight and assemble it tightening them down appropriately.

 

[Offbottom]

First, thank you guys for taking the time to reply. I'm sorry about the prior photos, I've tried to do better with these new ones.

Showcrop: I was kicking myself for laying under that tractor for over and hour without seeing a helicoil, but when I got under it this morning there is not one there (see photo). But you had a brilliant theory about that and drilling a replacement hole. I wouldn't have thought of that myself. Good reasoning, bad photo.

bob p mn: Thanks for the input on the pin. I'm uncomfortable with mine as it is and I think I'm going to find a replacement more along the lines that you suggested. As it is, to change the drawbar I have to take the entire mount off. It would work a lot easier with the kind you commented about.

used red MN: (I am seeing an "MN" trend here -- haha) You're correct about the previous photos, maybe these are better. The holes are pretty clean. After the initial break out torque the bolts backed out pretty easily but I will clean the holes before reassembly.

I've also included a pretty good close-up of that hole in the middle of the back two bolts. It's not a partially drilled hole, although that did make a lot of sense. It tapers down then is straight about 1/4" diameter and maybe 1/2" deep. It doesn't appear to go anywhere. Any ideas?

General question: I use Never Seiz on just about every bolt when they go back because I have busted so many off. Good practice or not? Does your answer change if there is a lock washer?

General comment: I don't think these old farmers that bought these way back when ever bought a new bolt in their life. You would not believe the condition of some I've got out. Sometimes the hard way. If the bolt looks like crap, I replace them. Probably 80% of the time.

Thanks again, very good input and I truly appreciate it.

 

[bob p mn]

The pin and clip are available right here from YT . Ford part # CBPN804A. YT's item # 187117.

 

[used red MN]

My extreme SWAG is that tapered hole had to do with being a location hole for a factory machining locator and/or a mount pin for the assembly line fixture for the housing during the building of the tractor.
You can take or leave the Loctite suggestion, it is just what I would do if I had a concern with them coming loose.
Also adding a welcome for you to YT! And just FYI there is a forum for Ford tractors in the Manufacturers section, that is where the Ford gurus huddle.

 

[Offbottom]

Thanks, appreciated~!

bob p mn: Really appreciate the P/N for that. While I was hunting for that part I found YT P/N 115372, which is just the "clevis spring pin". Neither are much money, but I think I'm going to try to get that thing out of the groove on mine and maybe just buy the spring thing that holds it in place. If that bombs, then I'll get the part you mentioned. Thank you.

used red MN: I wouldn't have thought of the tapered hole for that reason but it makes total sense. Thanks for the tip on the Manufacturers section, I'll try to find it next time.

Any opinions on Never Seiz? I'm a believer in Loctite too and use it often, but my disdain for twisting off bolts has me putting NS on everything. Just want to make sure that's a practice I'm not going to regret later.

Thanks again Men.

 

[used red MN]

Any opinions on Never Seiz?

No conflict from this camp.

 

[bob p mn]

I'm a believer in anti seize myself. Some guys I worked with over the years just hated it, they would always say one gets the anti seize out and everybody in the shop was wearing it by the end of the day.

 

[Jim.ME]

Both are good. I would use blue (removable) thread locker on the drawbar mount.

The correct grade of Loctite or other thread locker properly applied can prevent rusting of threaded areas as well as securing the fasteners. Blue grade thread locker should not cause an issue of breaking off 1/2" or larger fasteners. If the fastener breaks it is more likely it was over stressed than the thread locker made it twist off. I have removed many failed cab mounts over the years and the fasteners, factory installed with a thread locker and they backed right out.

 

[maqbill]

Ya know, after scrapping all the dirt off, you're probably going to have to add weights

 

[RedMF40]

I’m here for the cat.

 

[showcrop]

I'm a believer in anti seize myself. Some guys I worked with over the years just hated it, they would always say one gets the anti seize out and everybody in the shop was wearing it by the end of the day.

A friend named Arthur used Never Seize often and would get it all over himself. For years another friend and I will say "pass the Arthur".

 

[Offbottom]

I'm a believer in anti seize myself. Some guys I worked with over the years just hated it, they would always say one gets the anti seize out and everybody in the shop was wearing it by the end of the day.

Oh brother, don't I know it. It's like pipe dope. The second you use it, there is some on your elbow, behind your ears, on your toes. It's amazing stuff.

 

[Offbottom]

I’m here for the cat.

The cat is in the figurative dog house. He has one job, the rats. But because he is so lazy rats have chewed up wiring in my '96 Ford Powerstroke. He is going to have to do better. He's huge too -- 20 lbs.

 

[RedMF40]

The cat is in the figurative dog house. He has one job, the rats. But because he is so lazy rats have chewed up wiring in my '96 Ford Powerstroke. He is going to have to do better. He's huge too -- 20 lbs.

Well, he’s eating SOMETHING .
Nice looking cat, has a good life there.

 

[Phill Tibbetts]

The cat is in the figurative dog house. He has one job, the rats. But because he is so lazy rats have chewed up wiring in my '96 Ford Powerstroke. He is going to have to do better. He's huge too -- 20 lbs.

I can sympathize with you. 2 years ago rats chewed up the wiring on my 2020 Kia Soul once and 2019 Caravan twice total damage over $4000.... Luckily insurance paid most of it. Now I have one of those high frequency electronic devices on all my vehicles and a bag of moth balls for good measure.

 

[Brownie450]

Not real sure, but those pics of the threaded holes look kind
of rough---like heli-coil inserts. Most thread holes look smooth
& finished.
Jim