jthornton7771
New User
So I am really considering the idea of converting my 12v converted 8N motor to electronic ignition. Has anyone done this? What are Pros and Cons? Nightmares? Thanks in advance.
HarryVanderpool
Member
- Location
- Salem, Oregon
Why are you considering this?
jthornton7771
New User
to be honest, I bought a 8n powered 9n tractor. The first day that I got to use it, I got a 1/2 of bush hogging out of it, now it wont start. I've done the fuel test, I replaced fuel line with steel line, sediment assembly, Carb. Then I chased spark, distributor rebuild kit, new wires, plugs, everything. Guess what, still wont run! I am on my way to replace a broken resistor, and see if the new condensor is actually bad. I'm running out of options. I just want a tractor that runs properly when I start it.
HarryVanderpool
Member
- Location
- Salem, Oregon
That is why a asked the question.
Most conversions are done due to a non-start or slow start.
However, It's the wrong answer.
Your tractor will not and cannot start or run any better on 12 volts.
Fix your tractor.
Our bone stock 6 volt 2N is THE FASTEST starting engine we own.
You push the button and it runs. When it doesn't, it needs service.
And servicing an N is as easy as easy gets.
Start over and set your 8N up to run, and it will run as designed.
Most conversions are done due to a non-start or slow start.
However, It's the wrong answer.
Your tractor will not and cannot start or run any better on 12 volts.
Fix your tractor.
Our bone stock 6 volt 2N is THE FASTEST starting engine we own.
You push the button and it runs. When it doesn't, it needs service.
And servicing an N is as easy as easy gets.
Start over and set your 8N up to run, and it will run as designed.
Cars went away from points ignition for a number of good reasons. Not a guarantee your tractor will start and run but not a bad idea. Plenty of folks who are good at points ignitions and like to tinker will try to talk you out of it but it is a very good option for many especially when you pass it on to a new generation.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I can buy 10 plus sets of points for what one electronic ignition would cost. Plus I have not had ot replace a set of points in years.
RobCons
Well-known Member
- Location
- Central Alabama
Jthornton other folks are correct if it wont run now simply installing an ei system probably is not the solution. Start trouble shooting again with tge basics. Is there spark, if not work on that. Is there fuel and is the carb adjusted correctly. I know its a silly question but is there fuel in the tank and is it turned on? Been there done that.
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
The key advantage to EI is that you do not need to gap & lube the points every year & replace them every 4 or 5 years or. If you perform annual maintenance on
the points & change them every 4 years or so using quality parts, you will see no difference whatsoever between a points ignition system & EI on an N.
The key disadvantages to EI on an N are initial cost, nearly impossible for the average N owner to repair, will not work w/ low battery voltage, & easily
damaged beyond repair by polarity reversal & other common mistakes.
To sum it up:
--- Putting EI on a N series tractor will replace the points. Any other advantages will be miniscule.
---- If you have a well running tractor & just don't care to fool w/ points anymore, EI is a perfect alternative.
---- If you expect EI to cure any significant ignition problem you may have other than bad points, it won't.
Bottom line.this is the question you need to answer: If tens of thousands of other Ns operate just fine on 6v and points, why cant mine?
75 Tips
the points & change them every 4 years or so using quality parts, you will see no difference whatsoever between a points ignition system & EI on an N.
The key disadvantages to EI on an N are initial cost, nearly impossible for the average N owner to repair, will not work w/ low battery voltage, & easily
damaged beyond repair by polarity reversal & other common mistakes.
To sum it up:
--- Putting EI on a N series tractor will replace the points. Any other advantages will be miniscule.
---- If you have a well running tractor & just don't care to fool w/ points anymore, EI is a perfect alternative.
---- If you expect EI to cure any significant ignition problem you may have other than bad points, it won't.
Bottom line.this is the question you need to answer: If tens of thousands of other Ns operate just fine on 6v and points, why cant mine?
75 Tips
HarryVanderpool
Member
- Location
- Salem, Oregon
In addition to Bruce's comments:
We are on our 3rd ignition switch (key switch) on our 2N after 35 years of ownership. The aftermarket switch quality isn't the highest these days. When ours has failed the symptoms have been intermittent which can be frustrating for some folks.
To test, I suggest you get out your VOM and connect to both sides.
Turn the switch on and if it works, wiggle the key a little bit. You need a SOLID contact, not a contact that has the meter jumping all around.
It doesn't help that I have other keys hanging on the same ring. :shock:
We are on our 3rd ignition switch (key switch) on our 2N after 35 years of ownership. The aftermarket switch quality isn't the highest these days. When ours has failed the symptoms have been intermittent which can be frustrating for some folks.
To test, I suggest you get out your VOM and connect to both sides.
Turn the switch on and if it works, wiggle the key a little bit. You need a SOLID contact, not a contact that has the meter jumping all around.
It doesn't help that I have other keys hanging on the same ring. :shock:
jthornton7771
New User
No such thing as a silly question, especially when you are trying to help me solve a problem. Yes, there is fuel, everything from the sediment bowl to the carb has been replaced and it gets fuel to the carb. Not starting is what initially started this exercise in futility. Tomorrow I am going to test the coil to see if it is getting spark to the distributor, then I will see how to test the condensor to ensure that the new one isn't actually a bad one. After that, I will follow the spark to the plug and hopefully, she will fire up for me. I know that my resistor was bad (Read: Broken in half!) so I am replacing that too. the EI question was one of curiosity, but the vendors swear increased horsepower, more reliable starting and less maintenance, so yes I was curious. Thanks to all of you for keeping it real and keeping me on track and pressing forward so to speak. I do enjoy working on the tractor and learning, however, my yard is 4 ft tall so Mama ain't happy! lol
jthornton7771
New User
No such thing as a silly question, especially when you are trying to help me solve a problem. Yes, there is fuel, everything from the sediment bowl to the carb has been replaced and it gets fuel to the carb. Not starting is what initially started this exercise in futility. Tomorrow I am going to test the coil to see if it is getting spark to the distributor, then I will see how to test the condensor to ensure that the new one isn't actually a bad one. After that, I will follow the spark to the plug and hopefully, she will fire up for me. I know that my resistor was bad (Read: Broken in half!) so I am replacing that too. the EI question was one of curiosity, but the vendors swear increased horsepower, more reliable starting and less maintenance, so yes I was curious. Thanks to all of you for keeping it real and keeping me on track and pressing forward so to speak. I do enjoy working on the tractor and learning, however, my yard is 4 ft tall so Mama ain't happy! lol
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I'll bet it has been well over a decade since I have done anything to the points on my 8N. Just checked spark yesterday to make sure it was still good and it was. It is a 1950 side mount that I had to change the oil due to it being flooded on May 5th but didn't get up high enough to get in the distributor
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
I'd bought a '49 8N in 2020, & it could be REALLY fickle to start, even after replacing the battery. There was some sketchy wiring that had come with a less-than-stellar 12V conversion, which probably had some role in that.
Anyway, I had the tractor in with a mechanic doing some other work that was beyond my feeble skills, & we discussed converting the front distributor to EI. (He recommended doing it, citing several others of similar vintage that he'd converted.) So I had him go with EI, and I don't regret it whatsoever--the tractor starts much, much easier than it did before.
I realize that some owners are in favor of keeping these 100% authentic/original, but I think part of the hobby comes down to this for the ones that aren't necessarily mechanically-inclined: there's a usability factor, and if there are certain things which keep these tractors operational and/or easier to use, that helps to keep these things alive 70+ years after the fact. If EI contributes to that and makes a lower-maintenance, easier-to-start outcome, then so be it.
Anyway, I had the tractor in with a mechanic doing some other work that was beyond my feeble skills, & we discussed converting the front distributor to EI. (He recommended doing it, citing several others of similar vintage that he'd converted.) So I had him go with EI, and I don't regret it whatsoever--the tractor starts much, much easier than it did before.
I realize that some owners are in favor of keeping these 100% authentic/original, but I think part of the hobby comes down to this for the ones that aren't necessarily mechanically-inclined: there's a usability factor, and if there are certain things which keep these tractors operational and/or easier to use, that helps to keep these things alive 70+ years after the fact. If EI contributes to that and makes a lower-maintenance, easier-to-start outcome, then so be it.
I have worked on cars for well over 50 years and electronic ignition on automobiles is great. On the other hand I've owned an 8N with points for 35 years and it will have points in it when I'm done. Points are simple and it takes a lot to wear them out or cause problems. On cars they would last 10-12k mi and were cheap and easy to replace. I don't think I could ever put 10k mi. worth of run time on my 8N. points are cheap and easy to diagnose and replace. Usually a test light, point file and a matchbook will get you going. Tow truck business increased tremendously when electronic ignition was introduced.
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
I put Pertronix EI in a later 3 cylinder
Ford. For the first few tears I kept a set
of points and condenser in a waterproof
package under the dash. Just in case...
I ran it for 4 years then sold it. The guy
who bought it would sometimes call me for
advice about implements etc or just to
yack. I would always ask him how 'my'
tractor was doing. He ran it for 7 or 8
years and then sold it and bought a new
Kubota. In that time the distributor cap
was never once removed.
This board has never had a good opinion
about EI. Mostly from guys who have never
tried it.
I can almost see a guy with side mount
distributer keeping points in his tractor
as it is just so easy to pull up a stool to
check or change them. But a front mount?
No way.
Getting down on creaky knees in mud or snow
- or even on the shop floor - to mess with
that goofy front distributer does not apeal
to me at all.
EI is Not a universal fix all for
electrical problems. But installed
correctly, by someone who knows even a wee
bit about tractor electrics, it is a once
and done deal.
Ford. For the first few tears I kept a set
of points and condenser in a waterproof
package under the dash. Just in case...
I ran it for 4 years then sold it. The guy
who bought it would sometimes call me for
advice about implements etc or just to
yack. I would always ask him how 'my'
tractor was doing. He ran it for 7 or 8
years and then sold it and bought a new
Kubota. In that time the distributor cap
was never once removed.
This board has never had a good opinion
about EI. Mostly from guys who have never
tried it.
I can almost see a guy with side mount
distributer keeping points in his tractor
as it is just so easy to pull up a stool to
check or change them. But a front mount?
No way.
Getting down on creaky knees in mud or snow
- or even on the shop floor - to mess with
that goofy front distributer does not apeal
to me at all.
EI is Not a universal fix all for
electrical problems. But installed
correctly, by someone who knows even a wee
bit about tractor electrics, it is a once
and done deal.
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Yes,
Those dual drive distributers are very rare
and hard to find.
Those dual drive distributers are very rare
and hard to find.
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