electronic ignition

[mrashwood]

Got a war going with my Dad. I say the graphite spark plug wires are better for the electronic ignition. He says copper wires are better. I can't remember where I heard that. I have the new type wires on my 1850. He has old crappy copper wires on a 560. Both run fine. Is one better than the other?

 

[David G]

I would follow the EI manufacturer instructions.

 

[rvirgil_KS]

I called Pertronics tech line about the EI in my 8N Ford. The Tech highly recommended that I use the non solid copper core wires.

 

[Oregon Tractor Jack]

If you are using something like a Petronx ignition you will have to have carbon core wires. The tractor will not run correctly with out them. The copper core wires will emit to much RF and will confuse the ignition module. The instructions are very specific about it. You will also have to use a coil with the correct internal resistance. Again, it is very specific about it in the instructions. Carbon core wires have come a long way in the last 50 years. I am sure the old ones did not last very long and did earn a bad rap in the past.

OTJ

 

[sotxbill]

Since your using a ignition coil to discharge.....

graphite has a higher resistance.. and a coil... will discharge at a higher voltage as the resistance goes up...

BUT.. if its firing already good.. higher voltage by itself will not help...

BUT..
Higher voltage will allow a bigger gap and that always helps..
Higher voltage will fire through a dirty fouled plug where sometimes regular voltage will not..
Higher voltage will fire at higher compression where lower voltages will not..
Higher voltage will arc to ground if there are any cracks or carbon trails where regular voltages may not.
Both graphite and solid core wires can both breakdown internally and cause no fire situations if the wires are bad enough.
Solid core wires will act as an antenna and send out static pulses to radios causing interference, that carbon wires usually will not. ie am, ssb, cw radio bands.

 

[JDEM]

No answer to your question without more facts. What does "electronic ignition" mean? Just breakerless with standard 20,000 volt coil?
CDI? Hi-energy 60,000 volt system with very wide plug gap?

Plug wires have their main job of being able to carry the max voltage without leaking out the insulation. Not very difficult on a farm
tractor firing with a max of 20,000 volts.

On a secondary level, some wires use extra resistance to raise voltage to eliminate radio interference.

 

[mrashwood]

The reason I was looking at it was because the guys we had put the pertronix on it left the old coil, wires and plugs. They only changed the points to the electronic module inside the distributor cap. I have a new flamethrower coil but I'm not sure if I need to remove the resistor that is on the tractor now. The old thing is running fine so I didn't want to mess it up. I'll see if I can look up instructions.

 

[Gambles]

Life is too short to argue about something like this, unless it's truly good natured. Let him win his argument, but you just keep your graphite spark plug wires.

 

[mrashwood]

My Dad wins EVERY argument! Which is really okay with me...And I may have meant carbon instead of graphite...do spark plug wires have graphite?

 

[John T]

You ask a good question: "Is one better than the other?"

Here's the deal. The correct answer is YES and NO, it depends on the ignition system.

For instance, in many old tractor magneto ignition systems lower resistance copper wire is preferred.

Copper wire has less resistance and there's less wasted I squared R heat energy dissipated in the wire so more gets discharged instead across the spark plug gap to ignite the fuel.

HOWEVER higher resistance carbon core suppressor plug wires can reduce radio interference in cases where that's an issue or is critical.

ALSO in some high energy electronic ignition systems the manufacturers prefer some degree of resistance and/or inductance in the plug wires and some wires may even be spiral wound to achieve that.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO lower resistance pure copper is best in many old stock tractor applications yet suppressor resistive wire or even spiral wound is preferred in some high energy electronic ignition systems...........

John T Long retired Electrical Engineer and rusty so no warranty HOWEVER consult the manufacturer and do as they say NOT what any of us here may have to say...........

 

[old]

Depends on the electronic ignition system. Some call for the carbon type wires and some the other type. Had a guy not long ago have one on an 8N and the electronic system tha twas on it called for the carbon wires and well it had true wire plug wires on it and it burned out after running a couple times

 

[Dell (WA)]

mrashwood.......in 1958, I would's KILLED fer graphite sparkie wires to suppress IGNITION interference in my short wave radio system. I hadda 500-volt PE-103 dynamotor and everytime I keyed my transmitter, that old dynamotor really sucked my 6-volt Ford flathead-V8 down. Here's a good experiment, go out when ittza DARK and start yer tractor up, WATCH fer the sparkies dancing on yer sparkie wires. When I replaced the sparkie wires on my eazy starting 6-volt 8N tractor, I had my 9-yr young son do itt. (with adult suppervision, of course) Gotta set fer some HOT-ROD Chevy V-8 with right-angle booties to fit under the gastank. (cut to length, natch) Now adaze, with all that computer controled anti-emission stuff, yer lucky yer sparkies sparkle........Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

 

[Mark - IN.]

I'm thinking that copper will give better fire because of least resistance, HOWEVER your neighbors and people driving around you may hate you if you use them. Lot of RF interference. I remember back in the day using 9mm and maybe 10mm copper wires from Accel and Mallory and they certainly did there jobs especially with electronic ignitions that were new then, replacing dual point distributors. Great for the drag strips and oval tracks. Great everywhere except near radio. They suppressed no noise. Back in the day, Chevy had a solution for that on the Corvettes. They enclosed the distributors and much of the wires in metal to run the RF interference to ground.

Mark
Corvette Ignition Cover

 

[Bret4207]

I can remember when we'd get spark interference in AM radio and analog broadcast TV. But no one can get any AM in this area to speak of in the daytime and TV is all satellite and digital out here. Does it even matter anymore?

 

[JDEM]

All a plug wire has to do is let enough power get to the spark-plug to make a spark. Usually around 20,000 volts if plugs are gapped at
.035." Makes no difference what the wires are made of as long as the power is not lost on the way to the spark-plug.

If someone adds a standard Pertronix breakerless kit - nothing changes.

If a high-energy system is added, and plug gap increased - then needs change as voltage rises.

Some "graphite" wires can have 20,000 ohms resistance and are not suitable for use on a low energy system.

 

[cuby]

I beg to differ with you "the tractor will not run right without them" referrinfg to the plug wires. I have many tractors in the field that has the Pertronix ign. system with the original plug wires[wire} and they are running good. According to instructions that I have seen that comes with these kits does not mention about changeing the plug wires.

 

[John T]

PS when your dad says "copper wires are better"

THATS INDEED TRUE FOR MANY TYPICAL OLD TRACTOR MAGNETO IGNITION SYSTEMS. They're designed for and match up well with low resistance copper wires !!!

That's NOT true in some battery powered coil distributor ignition systems IF RADIO INTERFERENCE IS AN ISSUE in which case carbon core "suppressor" wires are preferred.

That's NOT true in some high energy ignition systems where the designers prefer some degree of resistance in the wires

SUMMARY looks to me like he's Right and he's Wrong, take your pick according to which ignition system is used

Best wishes, be nice to your old dad now

John T

 

[buickanddeere]

Graphite and other resistor ignition wires are a failure waiting to happen.
Mechanical points can and should use solid core wires.
Electronic ignition systems should use the wound wire suppression wires.

 

[JDEM]

I asked before and I ask again. Just what the heck is an "electronic ignition?" One might be breakerless but low energy
with a standard points type coil and .030" max plug gaps. Another system also "electronic", might run an .060" plug gap and
capable of 3 times the max voltage. One type of wire does not work in all.

 

[mrashwood]

(quoted from post at 16:01:51 06/10/17) I asked before and I ask again. Just what the heck is an "electronic ignition?" One might be breakerless but low energy
with a standard points type coil and .030" max plug gaps. Another system also "electronic", might run an .060" plug gap and
capable of 3 times the max voltage. One type of wire does not work in all.

DEM I think it's just what you say... low energy. The old coil is still on there and the old plugs are still on there. Thanks to everybody for replying. I understand a bit better now. I think were going to go with if it ain't broke don't fix it. The ol' thing runs pretty good so I'm going to leave well enough alone.

 

[JMOR]

you are a smart man in 'don't fix if.....'