Elementary questions .. My rant

[jimg.allentown]

Every generation says the same thing about the one that follows, and somehow the world keeps turning. The truth of the matter is that "common sense , sound reasoning , and dead reckoning" have been the exception, and not the rule, since time began.

"Oh but it's getting worse. Believe me, I can tell." No, you're just being exposed to more of it because the world is so much smaller than it used to be. You can turn on the television, computer, or phone and see evidence of someone being incredibly stupid at any time of the day. Of course it's going to seem worse. Every old timer can recount stories of the town dunce. Most listening to the story laugh along nervously...

Oh, and they're not all for real. Some, many of them, are staged. Like the one posted previously in this thread of the woman pouring oil on her car's engine. The smart people are too smart to be out front and center. They're behind the scenes cashing in in the stupidity, and/or pulling the strings.

Remember also, the smart ones don't make the news. News focusses on the unusual and not-too-bright ones. As a newspaper man once said, if a dog bites a man, it isn't news, but if a man bites a dog, THAT is news.

 

[DoubleO7]

News focusses on the unusual and not-too-bright ones.

Especially if there is a murder or similar happening in a neighborhood.
99% of the time they interview just such characters for their opinion of what happened.

 

[Ted in NE-OH]

I am 81 years old, I would hate to apply for many of today's jobs with my limited computer skills. When I need help with my cell phone I have to ask a 12-year-old.

 

[NoDakInMN]

Despite the claims of those who say this is just old guys complaining about young guys just as happened for generations, there actually are things happening that refute that claim. Our society has evolved because so has technology. At one point most products were repairable, increasingly now, they are not. Take TVs, for example,TV repair shops used to be plentiful, now they are all but non-existent because TVs have become disposable instead of repairable. The same is true for a host of small appliances, if they stop working, you toss them and buy a new one. In the past, many a young person started their mechanical education trying to fix small devices or watching their fathers do it, and that had value because even if it couldn't be fixed, they learned a bit about how it worked. It also taught a lesson about the value of things, where making small repairs could save significant money. Now kids are taught that when things break, you buy new, that problems are fixed by spending money.

Then there are cars. Cars used to be the mechanical training ground for young men, even if you didn't have the aptitude to be a motorhead, you still did oil changes and other regular maintenance. This too taught economic lessons because if you could change your own oil for a fraction of what a shop charged, that meant you had more money for gas and girls on the weekend. Now cars have evolved to where you need a computer with proprietary software to do anything beyond minor maintenance. And even doing that has gotten more difficult for various reasons, from oil filters being placed in locations impossible to reach without the car being on a rack, to HOA Karens complaining that someone doing minor work on car in a driveway is a disgrace to the entire neighborhood.

Now I could go on in this vein for sometime on things like the harm participation award mentality has done or the need to spend vast sums on the newest cell phone while the old one still works perfectly, yet complaining how little money they have, but the point is clear, society has changed and things that were once taught as valuable for generations, no longer are. Instead of exercising economy and living within your means, young people are taught to be profligate spenders. Being self reliant is being replaced by being ever more dependent. Of course, this is not meant to be all inclusive of younger generations as a whole because there are exceptions to the picture I painted, my sons among them. But society HAS shifted to being more dependent and less self reliant, to the point that doing work with your hands is no longer regarded as honorable employment by many. Trades and skilled work are suffering from a crisis of employees because too much of the collective societal mindset thinks such work is beneath them. Yet, they burden themselves with staggering amounts of school debt and think that debt should be paid for by the taxes on the income of the labor they deem beneath them.

So, yeah, this isn't just old guys complaining about young people as has long been done. This is about people with experience seeing society change, and not necessarily for the better.

 

[jimg.allentown]

I am 81 years old, I would hate to apply for many of today's jobs with my limited computer skills. When I need help with my cell phone I have to ask a 12-year-old.

Are you trying to say that a 12-year-old is smarter than you are?
I'm not far behind you, but I have been a computer hobbyist since the mid 1980s. it is just a question of learning how to deal with modern technology.
That child that you think is so smart is only doing what you could do. He pokes around until he finds what he is looking for. I've watched more than one of them poking around to accomplish something. They just aren't as smart as you give them credit for. Their advantage is that they are growing up with the technology that many older folks shun. Many older folks don't learn because they don't want to. Technology simply does not interest them.

But, I truly want to poke a big hole in that "12-year-old" computer/phone "genius." They really aren't. They just READ everything on the screen and use it to make decisions.

 

[Rich'sToys]

Despite the claims of those who say this is just old guys complaining about young guys just as happened for generations, there actually are things happening that refute that claim. Our society has evolved because so has technology. At one point most products were repairable, increasingly now, they are not. Take TVs, for example,TV repair shops used to be plentiful, now they are all but non-existent because TVs have become disposable instead of repairable. The same is true for a host of small appliances, if they stop working, you toss them and buy a new one. In the past, many a young person started their mechanical education trying to fix small devices or watching their fathers do it, and that had value because even if it couldn't be fixed, they learned a bit about how it worked. It also taught a lesson about the value of things, where making small repairs could save significant money. Now kids are taught that when things break, you buy new, that problems are fixed by spending money.

Then there are cars. Cars used to be the mechanical training ground for young men, even if you didn't have the aptitude to be a motorhead, you still did oil changes and other regular maintenance. This too taught economic lessons because if you could change your own oil for a fraction of what a shop charged, that meant you had more money for gas and girls on the weekend. Now cars have evolved to where you need a computer with proprietary software to do anything beyond minor maintenance. And even doing that has gotten more difficult for various reasons, from oil filters being placed in locations impossible to reach without the car being on a rack, to HOA Karens complaining that someone doing minor work on car in a driveway is a disgrace to the entire neighborhood.

Now I could go on in this vein for sometime on things like the harm participation award mentality has done or the need to spend vast sums on the newest cell phone while the old one still works perfectly, yet complaining how little money they have, but the point is clear, society has changed and things that were once taught as valuable for generations, no longer are. Instead of exercising economy and living within your means, young people are taught to be profligate spenders. Being self reliant is being replaced by being ever more dependent. Of course, this is not meant to be all inclusive of younger generations as a whole because there are exceptions to the picture I painted, my sons among them. But society HAS shifted to being more dependent and less self reliant, to the point that doing work with your hands is no longer regarded as honorable employment by many. Trades and skilled work are suffering from a crisis of employees because too much of the collective societal mindset thinks such work is beneath them. Yet, they burden themselves with staggering amounts of school debt and think that debt should be paid for by the taxes on the income of the labor they deem beneath them.

So, yeah, this isn't just old guys complaining about young people as has long been done. This is about people with experience seeing society change, and not necessarily for the better.

VERY well put!!

 

[ss55]

Despite the claims of those who say this is just old guys complaining about young guys just as happened for generations, there actually are things happening that refute that claim. Our society has evolved because so has technology. At one point most products were repairable, increasingly now, they are not. Take TVs, for example,TV repair shops used to be plentiful, now they are all but non-existent because TVs have become disposable instead of repairable. The same is true for a host of small appliances, if they stop working, you toss them and buy a new one. In the past, many a young person started their mechanical education trying to fix small devices or watching their fathers do it, and that had value because even if it couldn't be fixed, they learned a bit about how it worked. It also taught a lesson about the value of things, where making small repairs could save significant money. Now kids are taught that when things break, you buy new, that problems are fixed by spending money.

Then there are cars. Cars used to be the mechanical training ground for young men, even if you didn't have the aptitude to be a motorhead, you still did oil changes and other regular maintenance. This too taught economic lessons because if you could change your own oil for a fraction of what a shop charged, that meant you had more money for gas and girls on the weekend. Now cars have evolved to where you need a computer with proprietary software to do anything beyond minor maintenance. And even doing that has gotten more difficult for various reasons, from oil filters being placed in locations impossible to reach without the car being on a rack, to HOA Karens complaining that someone doing minor work on car in a driveway is a disgrace to the entire neighborhood.

Now I could go on in this vein for sometime on things like the harm participation award mentality has done or the need to spend vast sums on the newest cell phone while the old one still works perfectly, yet complaining how little money they have, but the point is clear, society has changed and things that were once taught as valuable for generations, no longer are. Instead of exercising economy and living within your means, young people are taught to be profligate spenders. Being self reliant is being replaced by being ever more dependent. Of course, this is not meant to be all inclusive of younger generations as a whole because there are exceptions to the picture I painted, my sons among them. But society HAS shifted to being more dependent and less self reliant, to the point that doing work with your hands is no longer regarded as honorable employment by many. Trades and skilled work are suffering from a crisis of employees because too much of the collective societal mindset thinks such work is beneath them. Yet, they burden themselves with staggering amounts of school debt and think that debt should be paid for by the taxes on the income of the labor they deem beneath them.

So, yeah, this isn't just old guys complaining about young people as has long been done. This is about people with experience seeing society change, and not necessarily for the better.

NoDak,

If you think about it, in a sense we have already been treating farmers the same participation award mentality for generations in the form of subsidies and exemptions that other businesses and working families do not get.

 

[1948CaseVAI]

This is why you cannot just tear into modern sophisticated equipment. Read between the lines as well - if you are not farming greater that about 4,000 acres JD cannot afford to care, either. The world has changed. I found this 25 minutes to be worth my time but your mileage may vary.

 

[NoDakInMN]

NoDak,

If you think about it, in a sense we have already been treating farmers the same participation award mentality for generations in the form of subsidies and exemptions that other businesses and working families do not get.

Not really the same as you are making an apples and oranges comparison. Most businesses operate in a system where they set the value of their products and thus ensure a margin of profit, farmers do not enjoy that luxury. And truthfully business can get subsidies and tax exemptions that farmers do not. Local governments around here give property tax exemptions to businesses all the time, I have not seen any farmers get any such consideration. Business receive government backed low interest loans from local governments and the feds have an entire bureaucracy for just such things called the Small Business Administration (SBA). For most farmers, subsidies are a thing of the past, but even when they existed, they were a holdover from the socialist policies of the New Deal, not some participation award mentality. They remained in place for a long time because, again unlike most businesses, the market value of their products were affected by the agricultural policies and subsidies of foreign governments. Thus the price of the products they marketed became a plaything of global politics. US farmers long maintained that if given a level playing field for marketing their products, there would be no need for subsidies. Thanks to reforms in trade policies, this has largely come to pass. But the point remains, this is something that the vast majority of businesses do not have contend with and thus to try to do so is comparing apples to oranges.

As for working families, again you are making comparisons that are unreasonable, farming is a business and working families are not. But even here the idea that they get nothing from the government is unjustified. If they become unemployed, the government administers and adds a portion to the unemployment benefits employers pay into. First time homeowners get grants from the government and often loans that do not require a 20% down payment. Working families get extra deductions for things like daycare and schooling expenses for their kids.

So spare us the contention that businesses and working families do not get any help from the government while farmers do, it simply isn't true. I'm not trying to pick on you here, but I do get very weary of this false claim being made time and time again.

I'm editing this to add a couple other points. When adjusted for net income and population, farmers pay a massively disproportionate amount of property taxes simply due to the nature of their operations. Thus it can be fairly said that farmers windup subsidizing many businesses and working families in many areas.

And speaking of net income, few other businesses have such a massively offset investment/net profit ratio as farmers. A huge portion of that investment cost spins off into countless other jobs and businesses, so as a group, farmers are probably proportionally more responsible for additional businesses and jobs than any other group, and that is before we consider all the things that spin off from what they produce.

 

[paul]

Been kind of wondering where the farmers are going to go.

The technology has advantages. That’s why it is used. But it comes at a cost. Need thousands of acres to pay for it.

I see the YouTube farmers, pretty close to auto driving tractors and combines. Drones spray fields mostly on their own. Just need someone around to fill tanks, monitor for problems.

Can’t fix any of the stuff, need the dealer with a laptop.

Pretty tough to modify anything, the computers are integrated into everything.

Can’t really afford to own the machinery, even if you do you only own the lumps of iron and plastic. The company owns the software not you. Too many wires and sensors that fall apart over the years, can’t afford a 15 year old machine.

Pretty much need to lease a machine and use it up in the 3-5 year lease periods.

That takes more acres.

So….. what’s left to be a farmer? Hire the agronomist, lease the machinery, a few hired hands to monitor the machines doing their thing. Monthly payments to the technicians that come and fix your stuff you don’t really need a shop any more.

You really aren’t doing much any more in the future?

Not the end of the world, I’m not all wound up. Just interesting to look towards the future and wonder where it goes.

Paul