EXACTLY 2 sputters every time, then nothing

Hope this is not repetitive of others but here's my trouble: 1952 8n side distributor. It is 45 degrees outside. My coil has a strong spark, may be a bit yellow in color. New gas tank. Rebuilt carb but with old non-neoprene-tipped needle and seat. Clean under-tank sediment bowl. Float level 17/64 without gasket, 1/4 inch with gasket. Main jet 1 3/4 turns out. 12volt Delco conversion. Side distributor. Under tank fuel valve open 1 3/4 turns.Squeaky clean throughout, no dirt troubles in fuel. Good suction at intake. Choke fully shut and throttle half open. Ran last month but little power. New Interstate 12v Battery. Clean terminals. Cranks great. Sputters exactly 2 times and no sputters after that...and no start.... period. Acts like no fuel, but bowl is full and all passages blown out in September. Dunked in carb cleaner a few months before that. Spark Plugs appear good. Points look new, What am I missing?
 
(quoted from post at 00:14:28 12/30/08) Phippsburgh,Put a new set of Autolite 437 plugs in it and replace your flooded your old ones.
And if I may add, don't begin with choke. Start turning it over and then slowly add a bit of choke, little by little, so as not to foul you brand new plugs.
 
I let mine turn over @ 2-4 times before choking for @ 1/2 a revolution. Any more or less and it won't start. That's my cold start routine. HTH
DON TX
 
Phippsburgh,You said,Ran last month but little power.
I thought I remembered you,looking back.

Phippsburgh

09-06-2008 06:27:49
207.69.137.6
675726


Report to Moderator


Any ideas on how much blowby out the oil fill cap is normal? I have good oil pressure and pretty good suction on the intake, but a constant puff out the oil fill cap. Also, what holds the radiator in up top? It seems to shake all the time and loosens the cap sometimes. Just a pad of rubber flapping?

[Reply]
ruce (VA)

09-06-2008 06:37:51
24.125.26.10
675729


Report to Moderator

Re: Blowby and Radiator shake in reply to Phippsburgh, 09-06-2008 06:27:49
The radiator hose holds the radiator at the top. There is a green pad that goes around the filler neck.

If you want to really know the condition of you engine rather than just guessing by placing your hand over the carb, try a compression check.

Minimum acceptable pressure is 90 lbs w/ the lowest pressure reading w/in 75% of the highest reading. Run the engine to operating temp, turn it off, remove all 4 plugs, remove the breather hose & make sure the choke and throttle are both open. Crank it at least 5 compression strokes or until the gauge stops moving. Write down the first compression reading (that is the valve seating) then write down the reading after 5 strokes or when it stops increasing. You should have two numbers for each cylinder. Then, add a tablespoon of oil to each cylinder & repeat the process, but you only need the final reading for each cylinder. Write down the results & post back for help figuring out what it all means. Check tip number 46 at the link below for more info.

* 50 Tips
Did You ever check the compression?
Do you still have Autolite 216 plugs in it?
 
First off, this is a great post w/ plenty of solid info. Lets start w/ some of your observations:

1. "My coil has a strong spark.", That's nice, but spark at the plugs is what makes it run.

2. "but bowl is full" That's nice as well, but it's gas in the carb you need to check.

3. "Spark Plugs appear good" If they were oily & black or burnt, you would have a problem. But, you can not see the deposits left on them by today's crap gasoline, so change them.

4. "Points look new". Did you look really close to check for pits or burning? While you're there, it doesn't take but a second to re-check the gap (.025) & run a clean dollar bill through them to remove any grease or corrosion.

You have great powers of observation & know where to look. Now, try this to get it started.

There are three very important tools you always need to have in your N tool box: a 3 inch piece of wire w/ alligator clips on each end, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to 3/16” and a 7/16 box end wrench. And, you really do need a working ammeter. With these tools, you can quickly narrow down most N problems to spark or fuel.

First, check for fuel. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb. If it’s a dribble or none at all, you have solved half the problem: it’s fuel related. If gas flows well out of the carb & only stops when you turn it off at the sediment bowl, chances are very good it’s not a fuel problem. So, next, crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the ammeter doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it dip? Next, get the old plug, ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the head, turn the key on & crank the engine. You have three possibilities: no spark, weak and/or intermittent yellow spark, or a bright blue spark. What is it? Unless it’s a blue/white spark, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter shows a constant discharge, or doesn’t move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem. Jump the ignition switch w/ your jumper wire & see what happens. If it runs, you found the problem.

If it does not have gas coming out of the carb at a steady stream w/ the bolt out, you have a fuel problem. First, remove the gas cap. Your vent could be clogged & it vacuum locked. If that doesn’t work, tap the carb bowl w/ a hammer handle in case the float is sticking closed. (don’t whack it w/ the head of the hammer; you can crack the bowl). If you still don’t see gas flowing, the N has three fuel screens; one in the brass elbow, one in the top of the sediment bowl & one on the stem of the sediment bowl in the gas tank. Check the screen in the elbow & the screen in the top of the sediment bowl. (don’t worry about the one in the tank) Both probably need to be cleaned. If you have the fuel knob turned on all the way, it may be trying to feed off of the reserve inlet which is probably clogged. Only open it 2 full turns. Put at least 2 gallons in the tank.
50 Tips
 
Thanks Bruce. I do have a new ammeter (Stewart& Warner) installed in the dash. So it needs to dip as I crank? I have a brand new ign sw. By bowl I meant carb bowl, and it is full and flowing. I do have Autolite 216 plugs which were installed by previous owner who did not have access to this site. I am sure they are due for an upgrade to 437s. I guess I was just trying to save a buck. So will this ammeter dip be easy to see?Thanks for all the help.Glad the weather here is cooperating today.Phippsburgh
 
Thanks, I never had it running long enough to do a compression test, and it still has the 216 Autolite plugs in, but I plan now to change to 437s. Cheap insurance compared to my old method of trying to save a buck. Thanks
 
I will try to curb my overzealous choke hand. My old boss at the service station in 1986 used to tell the old ladies in frigid Minnesota, " Push the accelerator one time then put your foot on the dash while you crank"
 
As the points open & close, the ammeter will fluctuate w/ the change in current. Go ahead & replace the plugs.

While you're out getting plugs, get a multi-meter; $15 at Wally-World. That way, no guessing about voltage at the points.
50 Tips
 
Ammeter stays at zero when I crank. Has spark at plugs, I reset points at 0.016 and better sputters occur. Shot some starting fluid into air cleaner and no beter so that makes me think spark, not fuel. I plan to put in new plugs and points. I noticed my book sez 0.015 and you say 0.025 gap. Which should I do? Thanks alot, Christmas break should not be such a struggle!
 
Phippsburgh,You don't have to have the engine running to do a compression check on all 4 cylinders.Remove all 4 spark plugs,1st do a dry check,open the throttle all the way,no choke.attach compression gauge to #1 cylinder and crank the engine over at least 4 compression strokes.Take reading and write down results.Do that with all 4 cylinders.Then do a wet test by adding about a teaspoon of motor oil to each cylinder.Write down the results of the whet test.Post the RESULTS.
 
just went through this with my jd 70 found i had 2 pin holes in float which in turn fould the plugs patched float temporarily changed plugs and runs like a champ now just an idea for you
 
Well, I think we just solved the problem. It's a sidemount; gap is .025, just like the plugs. The book is wrong. The frontmount gap is .015.

Reset the gap & see what the ammeter does then.

If that doesn't work, get out the multimeter & follow the volts.

Ignition switch to terminal block to coil to side of the distributor then the points. Points open, 6v; points closed, about 3v. Do not leave the key on w/o the engine running or with the points closed for more than 1 minute. (tip # 38)
50 Tips
 

Its not the point gap,,, they will run all day long at .015,,, your spark may not B good enuff,,, will it jump 1/4" gap are do you have to hold the wire rite close to git a nice spark,,, spark is the easiest thang to verify but whoops even the best,,, spark does not mean it will lite the fire it takes a strong spark,,, one that will jump a large gap,, till you verify you have a kick arse spark don't git overwhelmed with guesses are amp gauge diagnostics :roll:

Theirs no next test till you verify you have good spark,,, color don't mean chit it must B capable of knock'n yer D--k in the dirt,,, GOT THAT :!:

Back to the .015 point gap,,, you will have a hot'er spark at .015 with a good set of points and the timing adjusted for the point gap
 
Yesterday's Tractor Forums

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top