F-20 stuck pistons.

[Chris NW Ind]

Looking for some opinions/guidance. #2 and 3 are stuck from standing water. Got them dried up on top and soaking with Kroil. The question I have is should I drop the pan, undo the rods first, then start pounding them down? The pistons are at least part way down in the bores so the crank is approaching horizontal.

 

[Chris NW Ind]

Ultimately, I'll rering all the pistons so everything will come out. Just hoping to hear from experience what my next steps should be. I can say this motor has been stuck for 5 or 6 years.

 

[kshansen]

Not familiar with a F-20 so my question would be does this engine have wet sleeves? If so I would be thinking about pulling the sleeves out with the pistons still in them. Then try to push them down and out the bottom of the sleeves.

 

[used red MN]

The question I have is should I drop the pan, undo the rods first, then start pounding them down? The pistons are at least part way down in the bores so the crank is approaching horizontal.

Yes, when striking things hammer blows are transferring energy. The less mass you have absorbing the blow(energy) the greater its effectiveness. In this case the crankshaft, others rods and pistons and basically anything that rotates in the engine is dead weight lessening the energy the hammer is providing to free the stuck piston. Disconnect the two stuck rods from the crank and rotate the throw away or down from the rod. Later if you want to use the crank to push the piston up again turn the crankshaft slowly watching it so it mates correctly withe the crank throw. Then apply the additional turning force to move them up.

 

[Chris NW Ind]

Yes, when striking things hammer blows are transferring energy. The less mass you have absorbing the blow(energy) the greater its effectiveness. In this case the crankshaft, others rods and pistons and basically anything that rotates in the engine is dead weight lessening the energy the hammer is providing to free the stuck piston. Disconnect the two stuck rods from the crank and rotate the throw away or down from the rod. Later if you want to use the crank to push the piston up again turn the crankshaft slowly watching it so it mates correctly withe the crank throw. Then apply the additional turning force to move them up.

Thanks. Can these pistons, sleeves, rods be pushed up out of the block as the other fellow speculated? I've fooled with a Cub, a B and several M motors, never an F-20. I gather the piston has to go down through the sleeve to be removed.

 

[Chris NW Ind]

In case you were wondering I believe water got in when the muffler bottom rotted at the pipe, rain water ran along the bottom at the down the pipe. I neglected it for too long and it is time to fix my mistake.

 

[used red MN]

Thanks. Can these pistons, sleeves, rods be pushed up out of the block as the other fellow speculated? I've fooled with a Cub, a B and several M motors, never an F-20. I gather the piston has to go down through the sleeve to be removed.

I like kshansen have no personal experience with hands on a F series. Hopefully someone else will chime in. As far as old tractors, neglect and stuck pistons it is all part of the game you are doing what is needed to rectify the problem. From what I see the damage is not to bad should be a fairly easy fix.

 

[rustred]

the thing is with them hand hole covers in them old blocks the rod end is bigger than the sleeve so they wont go up. must go down. get a round block of hard wood the size of the sleeve and give each one a smack with a post mall works the best as it the size of the wood and cast. and yes proper job is to remove them pistons and clean up the rings. and give that rust a hone job.they will come out the top if

 

[560Dennis]

What do you make of the clear difference in headgasket seal between 2 and 3 . Compared to 1 , 2 and 3 , 4 ?something else is going on. Take the head gasket your machine shop to get their opinion . Photo is not conclusive.

 

[Chris NW Ind]

Thanks.

Question. What is this canister supposed to be? Hooks to a tee on the oil pressure gage and then to the block.

 

[rustred]

What do you make of the clear difference in headgasket seal between 2 and 3 . Compared to 1 , 2 and 3 , 4 ?something else is going on. Take the head gasket your machine shop to get their opinion . Photo is not conclusive.

its done , ready to burn out. need to check the surfaces.

 

[rustred]

Thanks.

Question. What is this canister supposed to be? Hooks to a tee on the oil pressure gage and then to the block.

View attachment 149705

probably that toilet paper oil filter, or reclaimer as they were referred to.

 

[Chris NW Ind]

What do you make of the clear difference in headgasket seal between 2 and 3 . Compared to 1 , 2 and 3 , 4 ?something else is going on. Take the head gasket your machine shop to get their opinion . Photo is not conclusive.

Thanks. It's on the list to check.

 

[Chris NW Ind]

probably that toilet paper oil filter, or reclaimer as they were referred to.

Doesn't sound like something worth keeping.

 

[used red MN]

Thanks.

Question. What is this canister supposed to be? Hooks to a tee on the oil pressure gage and then to the block.

View attachment 149705

That is an add-on bypass oil filter. Baldwin was one manufacturer of these. The filter works on the same principle as the engines stock filter, just as the name suggest a limited amount of oil is filtered. The “bypassed oil” flowing to the filter was limited by an orifice hole somewhere between a 1/32” to 1/16”, that oil flowed through the filter element and down into the oil pan. Notice I said it was a by-pass filter just like the original filter. Oil flowing to the lubrication system in these old engines was not filtered except by the screen on the oil pump pickup. Full flow filtration designs were put in place in about all applications in the mid 1950s to early 1960s. You could leave it in place as a unique feature but block oil flow to it.

 

[Chris NW Ind]

That is an add-on bypass oil filter. Baldwin was one manufacturer of these. The filter works on the same principle as the engines stock filter, just as the name suggest a limited amount of oil is filtered. The “bypassed oil” flowing to the filter was limited by an orifice hole somewhere between a 1/32” to 1/16”, that oil flowed through the filter element and down into the oil pan. Notice I said it was a by-pass filter just like the original filter. Oil flowing to the lubrication system in these old engines was not filtered except by the screen on the oil pump pickup. Full flow filtration designs were put in place in about all applications in the mid 1950s to early 1960s. You could leave it in place as a unique feature but block oil flow to it.

Is there an element to change?

 

[used red MN]

Is there an element to change?

Look for some name or numbers cast or stamped into it this might help us determine what type of element it requires. I have heard on here of the claim that a roll of toilet paper was indeed used in some of them but someone else would have to confirm that. I have also heard that modern toilet paper doesn’t have the proper consistency for this application. All I can tell you about bypass filters is on our farm we ran Baldwins on a Case 1070, MF 1080 and IH gas combines. There was a percentage of hours you added to the oil change interval they actually recommended testing the oil and adjusting intervals per those reports which we did not do. Those newer filters had specific cartridges.

 

[Chris NW Ind]

Alright. Doesn't seem particularly user friendly if you have to undo 10 screws to reach the element.

 

[Chris NW Ind]

I can't find a single number or name on the canister. Once I get it inside, I'll get the top off.

 

[kshansen]

the thing is with them hand hole covers in them old blocks the rod end is bigger than the sleeve so they wont go up. must go down. get a round block of hard wood the size of the sleeve and give each one a smack with a post mall works the best as it the size of the wood and cast. and yes proper job is to remove them pistons and clean up the rings. and give that rust a hone job.they will come out the top if

Let me get this straight, on these engines the piston has to be installed from the bottom of the cylinder? So one must remove the crank from the block to take a piston out? I worked on a wide range of engines, most diesels, I'm having a problem thinking of an engine like that. But not saying it could not happen. Well other than a old VW Beetle pancake engine.