farmall 400 lifter issue

[SDE]

I bought a tractor with a stuck engine. I got it freed up and when reassembling it, I noticed that 2 push rods are about .3 higher than the other pushrods that are in the same orientation. Looking down into the lifter, it appears that they have a steel ball laying in the bottom of the lifter. The other lifters do not have this feature in them. The push rods do not self center themselves in these two lifters. I attempted to pull these balls out with a magnet and then a vacuum. That didn't work. Are they part of the lifter? Is this a replacement lifter? Aftermarket? I really doubt that this tractor has been run in the last 20 years. TY Steve

 

[rustred]

I bought a tractor with a stuck engine. I got it freed up and when reassembling it, I noticed that 2 push rods are about .3 higher than the other pushrods that are in the same orientation. Looking down into the lifter, it appears that they have a steel ball laying in the bottom of the lifter. The other lifters do not have this feature in them. The push rods do not self center themselves in these two lifters. I attempted to pull these balls out with a magnet and then a vacuum. That didn't work. Are they part of the lifter? Is this a replacement lifter? Aftermarket? I really doubt that this tractor has been run in the last 20 years. TY Steve

the cam followers or tappets come out after you remove the camshaft. what do the bottoms of the pushrods look like,? remove them and compare each one.

 

[Janicholson]

The lifter cover can be removed, allowing access. I would first use a finger prong parts grabber. Jim

 

[used red MN]

Are you sure what you seeing is not just some type of reflection in the concave seat in the lifter? Can you move it around with a long screwdriver or piece of heavy wire. If it doesn’t move it is probably not a ball bearing. How far did you have it tore down? What is the distance these lifters move compared to others when the engine is turned? I agree with JAN pulling the lifter cover and investigating is probably the best approach.

 

[D Slater]

Not sure if the problem, one design of pushrod had a ball like end. Other design had a half ball look. Think a 400 used the last design but you never know. But if pushrods were in when you got the tractor and none of the pushrods were missing and end that shouldn't be the problem unless previous owner tried to repair. Ball type would sometimes pull out of hollow rod. Other type has oval like indentation above end. Lifters are solid and can be removed from side after pushrods removal. How easy depends, if clean oil used and no carbon build up below bore they will lift out easy. May need to use a spray to loosen buildup on lower und if resistance is found. If set around and rusted lifter bore and lifter it can get harder. Sometimes lifter can get stuck and won't follow cam back down. May want to check that for push rod longer unless something is found in lifter. Okay lifter should look shiny and shape of pushrod end with dull spot in middle of cup unless really worn.

 

[SDE]

the cam followers or tappets come out after you remove the camshaft. what do the bottoms of the pushrods look like,? remove them and compare each one.

All the pushrods look the same and appear to be the same length.

 

[SDE]

The lifter cover can be removed, allowing access. I would first use a finger prong parts grabber. Jim

I had removed the cover already. I could not get the shiny ball to move with a short thin screw driver and so I did not think a "parts grabber" would be able to lift it out of the lifter. Which makes me wonder if it is part of the lifter or maybe it has been pounded into place when the engine had been run.

 

[SDE]

Are you sure what you seeing is not just some type of reflection in the concave seat in the lifter? Can you move it around with a long screwdriver or piece of heavy wire. If it doesn’t move it is probably not a ball bearing. How far did you have it tore down? What is the distance these lifters move compared to others when the engine is turned? I agree with JAN pulling the lifter cover and investigating is probably the best approach.

I have pushed my finger down into the lifter and have been able to feel this ball shaped object in these two lifters. I haven't felt or seen them move. The other six lifters feel empty with a cone shaped bottom. The lifters will come up about an eighth of an inch. As crusty as everything has been in this engine, it might just need to be worked up and down a lot more times in order to get it out. I wasn't sure if the bottom of the lifter might be to large for the lifter to come up and out of its bore.

 

[rustred]

post a pic of this problem

 

[SDE]

Not sure if the problem, one design of pushrod had a ball like end. Other design had a half ball look. Think a 400 used the last design but you never know. But if pushrods were in when you got the tractor and none of the pushrods were missing and end that shouldn't be the problem unless previous owner tried to repair. Ball type would sometimes pull out of hollow rod. Other type has oval like indentation above end. Lifters are solid and can be removed from side after pushrods removal. How easy depends, if clean oil used and no carbon build up below bore they will lift out easy. May need to use a spray to loosen buildup on lower und if resistance is found. If set around and rusted lifter bore and lifter it can get harder. Sometimes lifter can get stuck and won't follow cam back down. May want to check that for push rod longer unless something is found in lifter. Okay lifter should look shiny and shape of pushrod end with dull spot in middle of cup unless really worn.

I will try to find a picture of a lifter on line and compare the pic to what I have in the engine. All of the pushrods look the same to me. So I think they are ok. Most of the lifters came up and stayed up when I rotated the crank. I sprayed them and managed to get them loose again with light tapping with a rubber mallet. Only one required a real hammer to get loose. I just haven't ever had to dig this deep into an engine to get it going again. I hauled it home over a year ago and soaking it with at least 6 different concoctions was mostly a waste of time.

 

[rustred]

I will try to find a picture of a lifter on line and compare the pic to what I have in the engine. All of the pushrods look the same to me. So I think they are ok. Most of the lifters came up and stayed up when I rotated the crank. I sprayed them and managed to get them loose again with light tapping with a rubber mallet. Only one required a real hammer to get loose. I just haven't ever had to dig this deep into an engine to get it going again. I hauled it home over a year ago and soaking it with at least 6 different concoctions was mostly a waste of time.

you dont soak stuff and expect a fix, you tear it down and get eye's on the problem. then you attack the problem.

 

[SDE]

post a pic of this problem

I don't think I can get a good pic of it, but I guess I could try.

 

[SDE]

I bought a tractor with a stuck engine. I got it freed up and when reassembling it, I noticed that 2 push rods are about .3 higher than the other pushrods that are in the same orientation. Looking down into the lifter, it appears that they have a steel ball laying in the bottom of the lifter. The other lifters do not have this feature in them. The push rods do not self center themselves in these two lifters. I attempted to pull these balls out with a magnet and then a vacuum. That didn't work. Are they part of the lifter? Is this a replacement lifter? Aftermarket? I really doubt that this tractor has been run in the last 20 years. TY Steve

Thank you everyone. Armed with, " Lifters are solid and can be removed from side after pushrods removal. " I inserted the file tang into a slot in the side of the lifter and proceeded to tap on the file with a hammer until the lifter was out. All pushrods are 17 and three eights inches long. The 3 lifters that I have just removed are the same height and with the .5 inch steel balls removed from 2 of the lifters, the inside depth of these 3 lifters was within .01 of each other after a quick measurement with my Vernier caliper.
thank you again
Steve

 

[SDE]

you dont soak stuff and expect a fix, you tear it down and get eye's on the problem. then you attack the problem.

One piston was stuck badly enough that I had to use a hammer to drive it down a little. (after soaking and heat failed) Then I used a bottle jack to push a wooden block up into the piston. The front bolster and head and one side rail was off. Then I raise the tractor up a half an inch with this bottle jack. With another block of wood and a hammer, I smacked the piston a few times and it eventually started to move. She is a beast.

 

[Janicholson]

Those balls seem like a kid, or someone interested in your high frustration, put them there. To my k owledge there are no .5" balls in the engine. Some final drive bearings might have them. Jim

 

[rustred]

Thank you everyone. Armed with, " Lifters are solid and can be removed from side after pushrods removal. " I inserted the file tang into a slot in the side of the lifter and proceeded to tap on the file with a hammer until the lifter was out. All pushrods are 17 and three eights inches long. The 3 lifters that I have just removed are the same height and with the .5 inch steel balls removed from 2 of the lifters, the inside depth of these 3 lifters was within .01 of each other after a quick measurement with my Vernier caliper.
thank you again
Steve

Post them
Balls , as some ting wong wit dis picture , just not right.

 

[used red MN]

Thank you everyone. Armed with, " Lifters are solid and can be removed from side after pushrods removal. " I inserted the file tang into a slot in the side of the lifter and proceeded to tap on the file with a hammer until the lifter was out. All pushrods are 17 and three eights inches long. The 3 lifters that I have just removed are the same height and with the .5 inch steel balls removed from 2 of the lifters, the inside depth of these 3 lifters was within .01 of each other after a quick measurement with my Vernier caliper.
thank you again
Steve

That’s why I asked how far the engine was torn down or was it torn down when you got it? These are things that can explain how foreign objects such as ball bearings could get in an engine.