Farmall 560 gas

[Naber]

I have a IH 560 I got a couple of years ago. It appears that it has not had the best of care but it has always started good until now. I checked a spark plug and it looks very poor. It is a Champion # D 21. Would you recommend that I replace it with the same plug or a different plug?

Also, I am going to change the hydraulic fluid. It is very milky and probably hasn't been changed for many years, if ever. Can I simply drain the oil and replace it or do I need to somehow clean all the old oil that doesn't drain out? I suppose it will run out easier if it is warmed up. It has a loader so there is oil in the lines that might not all drain down. I hate to put expensive oil in if I haven't adequately drained the old oil.

 

[Charlie M]

People are going to get on here say get rid of the Champions but I have D21 plugs in all my tractors and don't have a problem unless they are worn out like you say yours are. Obviously need new plugs but I
would check the points also. If they are getting pitted either file them smooth or replace. Make sure the gap is correct when finished. Check cap and wires to make sure they are good. Sounds like all you need
is a good tune up to get it starting again like it used to. Maybe something else is adding to the problem but electrical system has to be in good shape regardless of what else could be going on.

 

[Roger Tomfohrde]

Changing oil in them when it has water in the oil is hard. Three plugs and 15 or so gallons of oil. I put cheaper stuff in and work them hard and drain again changing the filter.
But having put that down I do not have enough work now to run a tractor hard enough to get the rear end hot which is really what needs to happen. Current tractor-560- has had the
oil changed fully three times.

 

[mijohn]

I second that on D-21s. I have four gas tractors that I use all the time, never had any problems with them. Good luck, john

 

[the tractor vet]

Well it is like this IF you have to run qa D 21 then you have way bigger problems . D21 is WAY to hot of a plug and can cause deeper problems . They are a cheap way out when you have a oil burner that is way past rebuild The D 21 can cause pre ignition and this lead to higher combustion chamber temps that in turn can cause piston swelling and engine seizer , scoring of cylinder walls . I will NOT use them . And not use any Champion .

 

[rustred]

and i third that! i actually have had other plugs give me trouble. as for changing the oil use the tractor get oil warm . drive up on a ramp to get front wheels 8-10 inches off the ground. pull the rear drain plug under the diff and drain it also pull the trans drain plug. pull the hyd. plate off and check the filter. once you have the new oil in you can remove the loader cyl. lines and flush them and cyl's. into a bucket .and flush the system first before adding new oil if its necessary.

 

[DeltaSteve]

Give the tractor a complete tune up.Plugs,points,condencer....Dont forget plug wires,they can go bad too.I have 10 or so of those old Farmalls. They have differing brands of plugs in them.
Really,there is no difference,one brand is not better or more problematic than the others.The water in the hydralics is a tough one. Practicly impossible to get it all out. Pull all drain
plugs,let it drain for a while,overnight if possible. Inside a heated shop is better.You are going have to remove and physicly remove and drain each hose and cylinder.You may have to repeat.You
will never get rid of all of it. Just get to a place where you can live with it.

 

[Charlie M]

I'd like to ask a couple of questions - if you were forced to use a Champion plug what one would you use. All the manuals for my 1940 and 50's tractors listed D15 as the plug but todays gas is different than gas back then and needs a hotter plug than a D15. I'm also curious to how a hotter plug causes pre-ignition as it would seem to me it would make the tractor knock. I'm just asking as a guy who is closer to the armature side of being a mechanic than the professional side.

 

[KENIND]

Dad was a IH old school mechanic. He always said Champion was the best for IH equipment. I have run D21 plugs in all three of my IH and also in my 2 case dc's and they have always done very well with them. He said if you were going to be plowing for days switch to D14 and get better fuel economy. He worked on them from 1961 to 1985.....Kenny

 

[Hayfarmer]

I had same hydraulic problem on my 560D. When I bought it they guy who owned it said it didn't have a hydraulic filter, it does. When I opened hydraulic filter housing it looked like something one might find in a baby diaper, white sludge. I changed filter and oil and got all the crud out I could see. I thought changing oil and filters would clean it up but it didn't and got to where I would only run a couple hours and hydraulic filter would plug. Last year I pulled the PTO unit out and did a major cleaning in the case with wire brush and scraper. Second cutting I didn't have any problems with tractor. I am not saying you will have to do this, but if yours has been neglected like mine was it may need it. You gotta get all that old crud out. Have you checked filter?

 

[d282]

I run D18's in mine. I have flushed several 60 series tractors with diesel- drain, fill with diesel, drive around ten minutes and let
it drain for a day or two. That is what the local IH dealership always did.

 

[bc]

Now you have me wondering. Before my overhaul I was running D21's in my C221 which I thought was a C263 at the time but now has been bored and stroked to a C301. Everything I was reading here 10 years ago suggested running a hotter plug for these engines that don't pull a plow 10 hours a day. Before that my 2606 backhoe & loader tractor had some Autolite 386's. I hope to get it all put back together and running in a week or so (Lord willing and the polar vortex doesn't reappear). Been planning on putting in some Autolite 388's which are hotter than a 386 but no one stocks them. Then been thinking about keeping the D21's.

So after reading the above I will have to decide on the 386 or the D18. I do know with the rebuilt carb I got here at YT for a C263 that I am probably underjetted for the C301 which might make a difference on preignition knock. And who knows but if I have any trouble with points then I may opt for that Pertronix electronic ignition which is hotter than normal and requires a .007 wider plug gap. Guess I'll watch this thread for a while and decide. Part and parcel with the plug hotness is what temp of thermostat should I get, a 180 or a 195? Thanks.

 

[CenTex Farmall]

I run champions in the 460lp I have. Different displacement but same architecture. Sitting here I am unable to remember which
plug is in there. It runs like a fine watch.

Last year I did have an experience with champion plugs not working right in a plain old H of all things. It's the first time
that it happenened to me personally and I have used champion plugs this century and last. This H was rescued from a falling down
shed and got a pretty good going over including the new champion plugs. It had an intermittent miss at idle and part throttle
that I was working on and it went away completely after I switched in a set of Autolites just to see.

For sure change the filter for the hydraulics. They are often neglected. The 560 case will drain pretty good. As mentioned,
three different plugs to look for. You're right though in that you won't get all of it out due to the internal lines, power
steering etc. but you will get at least 90% of it.

Have the loader cylinders fully extended or retracted before changing the oil and unpin the rod end from the arms. Once oil
changed pull the line loose on the full side at the tractor end and the cylinder side on the empty end and a couple of buckets
to catch oil. Start and bump the lever only in the direction you need for the empty side thus flushing that hose. Hook those up
and then move lever same direction to fill cylinder and force oil from the other side and hoses. That will be about as good as
it gets and 100% better than it is now.

 

[the tractor vet]

99% of the time you will never hear a tractor ping . Not like a car or pick up . a hotter plug will cause preing. just like a glow plug . Yep todays gas is not the same and it burns way hotter at peak combustion. . and NO ya don't need a hotter plug to get it to fire that is total B/S . The D21 burns hotter to burn off oil fouling . Like i said if you have to run a D21 to keep your tonka toy going it is way past rebuild time or you have the carb sofar out of adjustment and the rest of the tune up is way out of spec.'s The best luck we have had with spark plugs are the C 86 A C 's next in line is the Auto lites / Motor crafts. With 58 years of working on and building engines from Mild to WILD i have a weeee bit of know how . Most of you the old tractor is a weekend play toy and you putt around with them and never really work them to get them warmed up to burn off the unburnt fuel or oily residue from loose valve guides or excess oil that came up around the rings and bam ya foul a plug or two , some over choke and once again ya go a wet plug that will not fire so someone tells ya ya need these D21. around here a lot of my old customers were still farming with what you play with . Up till about 6 years ago two farmers were still doing all there plowing with S/Mta's with two of them being on the same farms since new . The one farm had two with the second one being bought so the two boys could now do the plowing together and i was tasked with finding a second set of Oliver three bottom trailer plows for the second S/MTA . I found one and to get it i had to pay dearly as i gave more for them then i did a nice set of 5 bottom 710 I H plows . Then the customer wanted them totally rebuilt with OEM parts . The bill on them came to a figure that would have bought him a set of 5 bottom 720' spring rests just so the two boys could plow together . every spring i would tune both before they hit the field and they ran the C 86 A/C's , My S/MTA runs the C 86 and has since i have owned it and that goes back to June 27th 1990 . And one more thing when you are doing a tune up you put a timing light to them and set the timing as per the book . I hear it all the time OH i set mine by EAR . Well if you time by ear then you are sofar off it is unreal when the timing is on the money and old M will sound like it is laboring and if it is running smooth you are way to advanced , next up is the centrif. advance here again due to extensive field testing al age they are about plum slap wore out and off the mark . Ain't many of us left that know how to run a dist machine and rest the curve plus there are not that many old machines left let lone someone that can use it.

 

[the tractor vet]

I stopped usen Champions way back like 1964 , back in the lets go fast days . Back in the fun days and with my brand new hand built 390 FE Ford tha was pieced together with all NEW parts starting from a NEW bare BLOCK NEW BARE heads a NEW 391 truck crank shaft that took lots of machine work to be used in a car app. when done we were after every tenth we could shave off ET and HOURS were at the local drag strip in the evening tuning with the clock refining our driving and experimenting and building a data sheet on what worked and what did not . We started off in the low 13's and worked our way down to the low 12's then into the high 11's and like any drag racer were looking for MORE and what got me a LITTLE MORE was switching from Champs to AUTO LITES . When i went to work as a mechanic at a Chrysler Plymouth Dealer i worked on the fun cars and got to play with them and for Sh--t's and giggles one bright SUNDAY at the local strip i pulled the J9Y's out of qa Strong running 440 GTX and stuffed in a set of A 32 Auto Lites set at .028 and CHANGED NOTHING else and dropped 5 tenths . I had become a Brand new MOPAR owner myself with a new Road Runner and it got changed to AUTO LITES and it also GAINED and picked up a MPG on a trip as i could now use less gas then my dad with his NEw 68 Chevy Impala with the 283 and my 383 and my shell we say driving habits . He could get 17.5 and i could get 18.7 on the same trip and did it in half the time . I just know someone will ask why i did NOT have a GTX , well that is what i had planed on as Al Wagner Chrysler Plymouth had THE CAR a 1968 Plymouth GTX convertible 440 four gear in B 5 Blue while top white interior with a bench seat and it could have been mine all for just 2875 out the door tax and title no trade . MY INSURANCE AGENT convinced me that i really did not want that car. due to the fact that the insurance was going to cost twice as much as the car payment , so i bought the road runner .wish i had it back .

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Since most are tackling your spark plug question I will chime in on the hydraulic fluid question.

I am from the school of "dump and fill." If you are not having problems, just milky oil, simply dump it and replace with fresh. What little is in the rest of the system will dilute into the new oil, and if you maintain the tractor properly going forward, it will only get better with each change.

IMHO less expensive "compatible" oil is perfectly fine in these old tractors especially if it is your only tractor or you don't have any new tractors with exotic transmission designs that will share implements.

 

[CenTex Farmall]

I'm still impressed by what Ford did with the FE architecture and their Le Mans effort. They stuck it to them pretty good.

Not too surprised that you got better mileage. Higher compression and manual transmission in the right hands could do it.

Mopar built some great machines in those days. Did you ever build a dart for the strip? I heard of options being ordered such a no window mechanism, only a strap to hold up the glass and lightweight van seats. They knew those cars were going to the drag strip.

 

[bc]

I've been following the vet for years. Tried to get some AC delco C86's and no one had them. Went with the Autolite 386 for my rebuilt engine.

Forgot to get a thermostat. Am thinking a 180 degree should be fine for the rebuilt.

 

[gab]

I got D21s in my Super M and Super C. The ones in the Super C must be close to fifteen years old. Also have Champions in my garden tractors, tillers, chain saw, trimmer and so on. No trouble with the D21s.

 

[the tractor vet]

I built my 390 while i was in High School . I did have some outside help with some of the machine work . Back in those days i worked heavy construction and was and operator , truck driver , mechanic , welder and laborer . The owner of the company allowed me to use the one back bay at the main shop that use to serve as a carpenter shop as my play room . I had heat , well lit i had a 250 amp A C/DC welder torches and access to th vast amount of tools and machines and a privet entrance . I had access to the local drag strip since my mom was close friends with the owner and my second cousin was also a friend of the owner , My one uncle built the timing tower there and i even ran one of the Gallion rollers during the paving of that strip. The engine was going into my 61 Sunliner as a 390 tri power . I used the 391 truck crank since it was a forged crank not nogluer as the car cranks were i used the GT 40 rods and 427 med rise heads Jahns pistons and the crower Roller cam that was custom made with a 650 lift on a 1.76 rocker arm . I ran that car till i got drafted . I had a chance to run factory ford but being hard headed and not able to get what i wanted to run when i got out and i did not like the new Fords in 68 i jumped ship and went Mopar for awhile till i got a call from a large ford dealer to come to work for them and take over there drag program .

 

[bc]

Interesting. So where do you rate the 426 street hemi with the chevy 427 and the big block ford 440 running stock?

Next step below them I suppose would be the mopar 383, chevy 396, and the ford 390.