Farmall H Starting/Stalling

[nhoefler]

Hello everyone, open to any helpful suggestions or thoughts on getting this old girl back running properly. Long story short, it has been sitting a few years (inside) not run much and now at the point of it will start (with some struggle) and sounds really good, but will stall out in a matter of 10-20 seconds with the same results each time.

Many previous posts have been very helpful here but I have seem to run out of ideas or things suggested previously that I have not checked. A bit of summary:
Ignition system gone through, it has been converted to a 12V battery long ago with resistor inline then going to the original 6V coil and the rest. Recent new points/condenser and good spark there, spark at plugs as well but swapped coil, distributor cap, wires, rotor, plugs off another tractor just to be sure it wasn't an issue. At this time tractor would really not start at all besides a few pops and seemed there was a timing issue. Went through and found TDC intake on #1 to ensure I had #1 plug right off distributor (and order of the rest of them). Then went through and found at some point (who knows when) timing itself was off so went through procedure and rotated distributor. From there on it will start and got it dialed to where it sounds really good, but will soon start stuttering and fall on its face and die.

Given all that and that it seemed the next issue was on the fuel side. Carb has been disassembled, cleaned, reset, etc. Fuel line, bowl, inlet, screen in tank and screen at tank all checked/cleaned and fuel drained and refilled. Made sure no vacuum on tank by pulling the cap as well. By all accounts it sure does not seem like it is loosing fuel (bowl emptying and not refilling fast enough) which was my first suspect. When its dying I can pull the carb drain plug and have plenty of fuel and can shoot some carb cleaner in the intake and it will not recover like it should if fuel was the issue. I'm hesitant to buy rebuild kit and waste more time on the carb when everything looked good and has been cleaned to boot. It does not matter if it is at idle or full RPM which to me rules out an idle vs main jet issue, the stalling is the same and it struggles before stalling out so its not an instant thing like killing the switch. While I wont say the carb settings are perfect, the 10-20 seconds of running before having issues would say its not a simple adjustment issue either.

My only next step is I will be grabbing one of those cheap inline spark testers so I can visually see that when it stalls out, spark is still good. If so, its back to the fuel side which has me baffled. Anyone have any weird quirks or tips I have missed or should check? I'm sure I forgot something already in my summary but anything is appreciated.

 

[old]

No reason to buy a spark tester simple take an old plug and widen the gap to as close to a 1/4 inch as you can. Then use it to test spark at all 4 plug wires and make sure you have a good blue/white spark that jumps that gap.

Then open the carb drain plug and make sure you have a good steady flow of gas that will fill a pint jar in less then 3 minutes and 2 is even better.

You also should check the air cleaned and dump the water that is likely to be in it

 

[redgreen93]

The point of the spark tester was simply to see the spark while it is stalling, I know before that point spark is fine as mentioned. Fuel flow from the carb drain definitely is at least that much, and air intake makes no difference whether hooked up or intake left off from carb inlet.

 

[old]

If the oil cup is full of water it can and will do odd things as the running. Learned tat the hard way years ago

 

[rustred]

your description of setting the timing is way off the wall. while it may not be the problem but i have no idea if it is set to factory spec. as for the carb, ... was it soaked in carb cleaner? what are the carb settings at? this is important info . for an example maybe the main jet is almost closed . "ignition system has been gone through" dont mean much when we dont have any spec's thing were set to. is the points clean and set to .020? also when it starts studdering have you closed the choke to see if that helps? and the timing has to be set first before adjusting the carb. give me that tractor for 1/2 an hr. it appears to me you are running out of fuel. make sure the main jet is open 3 turns. i can type out a page of stuff but its a waste of time for me. what i read i reply to. its up to you to give exact details of things, then the ball gets rolling. and what you dont know say so, as then eliminates guesses. timing and carb setting for example.

 

[nhoefler]

(quoted from post at 15:04:42 03/09/21) your description of setting the timing is way off the wall. while it may not be the problem but i have no idea if it is set to factory spec. as for the carb, ... was it soaked in carb cleaner? what are the carb settings at? this is important info . for an example maybe the main jet is almost closed . "ignition system has been gone through" dont mean much when we dont have any spec's thing were set to. is the points clean and set to .020? also when it starts studdering have you closed the choke to see if that helps? and the timing has to be set first before adjusting the carb. give me that tractor for 1/2 an hr. it appears to me you are running out of fuel. make sure the main jet is open 3 turns. i can type out a page of stuff but its a waste of time for me. what i read i reply to. its up to you to give exact details of things, then the ball gets rolling. and what you dont know say so, as then eliminates guesses. timing and carb setting for example.

I indicated that I used TDC and those details to ensure I had the correct wire for #1 cylinder off the distributor, to basically start from scratch and not assume anything was correct, I did not give any details on the second portion where I actually set timing (my bad). I used the first of the two close together marks on the crankshaft pulley as a start and then rotated the distributor against the direction of rotation until the points opened. The comment about going through the ignition system was a summary that was elaborated on, points are new and show strong consistent spark as well as spark at the plug like mentioned. The carb was completely disassembled and clean through every needle/jet and port. Currently idle air screw is 1 1/2 turns out and fuel 2 1/2 but have varied both up to a turn each direction to no avail. Pulling back the choke quickly does seem to help slightly which to me also says its a fuel issue, just not finding much left to check unless it is something internal to the carb I am missing.

 

[Loren in Iowa]

Shouldn't you be using a 12 volt coil, with that resistor, in your 12 volt system, instead of a 6 volt coil? Can't be getting much voltage, while running.

 

[Dave41A]

You probably already checked this, but you are sure your gas is clean and fresh? Bad gas (I was convinced it was good) really stumped me on my H for longer than I care to admit. A trip the gas station and it was back up and running like a top.

I think it is a gas/fuel side problem. Can it re-start right away, or do you have to wait a while? Dave

 

[old]

You need to do the gas flow check by pulling the carb drain and if the flow is not the 3 minutes or less work you way back to where the flow is good. Some carbs have a screen in the carb elbow that gets clogged up

 

[55 50 Ron]

With a 6 volt coil and a 12 volt battery the resistor IS needed if it's wired correctly in series with the coil input.

 

[used red MN]

Through all this what I would suggest is install a condenser from a running tractor. I see you said you replaced it, but many new ..land of almost right.. condensers are found bad out of the box or fail quickly. It would be kind of odd that it would act the same after the ignition work as before if this is your problem. The comment about you having the wrong coil is not valid, 6 volt coil with a resistor is correct. Another possible issue which I am not sure has been mentioned is an intermittent break in the resistor itself. The spark test should show this but in my thinking just as easy to have a test light or meter on the coil feed post to see if power is dropping out there.

 

[Rich'sToys]

How clean is the inside of your fuel tank? I've known cases where a large piece of crap would get sucked down over the opening, causing the tractor to quit. After it quit the piece would float out of the way and allow the tractor to start again till the next time it got sucked down there.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Have you tried choking it when you start it and then adjust to run while cold. We have to do that with our H till it runs a few minutes. I just adjust the choke. One of the things needs done on old engines when started cold.
If it reacts positively to choking then your fuel may be set to lean or not getting enough fuel. Ether sprayed in the intake would also tell the fuel issue also. Just don't get carried away with it in the intake. A sniff will keep it running if it is fuel. you will have to feed it to keep it running if it is a fuel problem..

 

[rustred]

He said the carb had been totally gone through. But what they say and do is two different things. I like my eyes and hands on the subject .

 

[old]

Yes and I too have seen many carbs that where rebuilt but they never ran a wire threw the passageways to they where still clogged up. A good rebuild one has to soak blow, spray and poke them out and then repeat 3 or 4 times

 

[nhoefler]

Long overdue update here. I ended up following pretty much any and all advice here, bought a rebuild kit and tore the carb down to every last piece and went through every single passageway. No obstructions but the float was definitely off from the specs provided for its stops so adjusted that. Checked fuel quantity out of the drain plug once reinstalled (plenty of fuel) and still not running any better. Back to the spark side, realized spark just did not seem like enough when I compared to our M with the same coil/distributor setup. Swapped coil out and cleaned up the points once again and it roared to life. Sounded great, stayed running, and I was able to fine tune the carb for the first time thinking this was finally the end. Probably 1/2 hour of running like a top, low idle up to full throttle. Could not put a load on it at the time but that was the next plan to truly test it.

Came back to restart it a few days later and it acted almost the same as the original issue, rough running and would only stay running for a short period. After a few attempts got it to run but it sounded awful and I had a real heavy stream of white smoke out the exhaust. Felt it with my hand over exhaust pipe and definitely felt like moisture. Open rad cap and started it and you can see it immediately moving water around/bubbling even when cold and thermostat should be closed (assuming its not stuck). To preface all this earlier on in troubleshooting I did notice the smoke one time and checked the oil and it looked milky so we drained/refilled (no clue how old that oil was). At the time there were so many other issues I didn't think much of it but now knowing all this I again cracked the drain plug open slightly with this new oil and got straight water out of the bottom of the pan (oil has roughly 30 min of runtime).

After all this, I did get some backstory that "oh yeah it was loosing a bit of water before but I put some stop leak in and thought that was fixed" :roll:

Long story short, I clearly need to tear into things now as it's evident there is a head gasket issue, cracked block, etc. Question I have for those of you with some experience here is how can any of those problems be so intermittent? What I mean by that is it makes no difference if the tractor is warm or cold, sometimes I can start it up and immediately see the issue and others it purs along indefinitely like no problem exists? A crack or head gasket issue would make some sense to me warm vs cold but just curious if I could be missing something or misunderstanding something simple before going for a full rebuild.

Thanks

 

[Dave41A]

Intermittent problems are the most difficult to troubleshoot. The problems are likely a combination of things that together contribute to what you are seeing. Sometimes they have a mind of their own.

Hopefully it is just the headgasket.

My H was a similar combination of half-repairs. I rebuilt the carb to get it running, but it still wouldn't run right. Found the manifold was installed with RTV & leaked badly--so I installed it properly. Still wouldn't run right. Discovered bad headgasket. etc.

Each fix allows you to discover the next problem. Little by little you'll get the problems worked out.

You're actually doing quite well considering the incomplete story you were given.Good luck. Dave