Farmall m front wheel bearing grease retainers

[busboy]

I was removing the the front wheel bearings race and found they have grease retainers. well they got messed up. Are they really needed ? i was going to order new one but they are way over priced. has any one run into this. I did hammer them back into shape , they might work. We have a whole fleet of school buses that run grease and they dont have grease retainers any thought? The outter retainer is$116.56 and the inner is $50.00 which is crazy for a little piece of steel.

This post was edited by busboy on 06/16/2023 at 04:27 am.

 

[caterpillar guy]

We drill our hubs abd use a grease gun on them so we don't have to mess with all that. then just add some grease occasionally. It has been decades since I have had one apart now. We also will remove the cap and put some gear oil in it then put it back on or in depending on the wheel as we do that to all wheels.

 

[busboy]

I just finshed drilling and tapping for a grease fitting. I guess Ill pack the bearings and fill that hub with grease . Ill spend $100 on grease not a piece of tin

 

[redforlife]

I'm thinking the 'outer' is the cap and
gasket. You can re-use the cap, and if you
need a new gasket, just cut one out of a
sheet of gasket material.

I'm thinking the inner is just a common hub
seal. If so, just measure where the inside
of the seal rides, and take the measurement
and old seal to an autoparts store. My auto
parts store guy can often times get
bearings and seals just going by the
measurements. No Case/IH dealer, or jacked
up NOS prices involved.

Been awhile since I had an M hub off, but
I'm thinking the inner seal is just a
normal hub seal like on any other hub. The
F series on the other hand, had felt seals
that are entirely different and unlike a
normal hub seal.

Anyways, something to check out before just
putting it back together without. I'd want
one in there, if nothing else, just to keep
the dirt out.

 

[caterpillar guy]

We drill the hub not the end of the cap to be easily knocked off on anything. Like red for life said you should be able to get a seal by measurements of the hub and spindle to fit. Like I said earlier it has been so long since I had one apart I would have to look to see what we did for the seal and I know there is one in there to keep the dirt out. IF you run in a lot of muddy wet conditions you could even cut a hole in a plastic jug to fit over the hub tight and let it turn with the hub to keep the bulk of the crude out and let the seal worry about the rest. We have done that on a few wheels that ran on muddy wet conditions even used a tin can for that. The plastic jug lasts longer though since it doesn't rust though it will get brittle over time.

 

[busboy]

This is what Im talking about. They get installed
before the bearing race goes on

 

[redforlife]

Do you mean, gets installed onto the spindle before you put the hub assembly on? Because the inner bearing race should be pressed into the hub upon installation before doing anything else.

Are these things you posted from out of the same hub? And the other hub has two of these just like them? Because if that's so, it looks like a two piece double acting seal. One side retaining grease, the other side a dirt guard. But if the spindle has a shoulder for only the seal itself to rest, this two piece seal can be replaced with a common one piece seal. In a nut shell, you don't have to have a seal like what your showing.

But if the seal uses the same shoulder as the inner bearing race (I doubt that, and I am thinking not), then obviously the one piece seal idea won't work.

 

[busboy]

(quoted from post at 08:22:21 06/17/23) Do you mean, gets installed onto the spindle before you put the hub assembly on? Because the inner bearing race should be pressed into the hub upon installation before doing anything else.

Are these things you posted from out of the same hub? And the other hub has two of these just like them? Because if that's so, it looks like a two piece double acting seal. One side retaining grease, the other side a dirt guard. But if the spindle has a shoulder for only the seal itself to rest, this two piece seal can be replaced with a common one piece seal. In a nut shell, you don't have to have a seal like what your showing.

But if the seal uses the same shoulder as the inner bearing race
(I doubt that, and I am thinking not), then obviously the one piece seal idea won't work.

They go in the hub first then you press in the bearing race on both the inner and outer side. the smaller one is the outter grease retainer and the bigger one is the inner grease retainer.

 

[redforlife]

So the individual bearing, has seals on
each side of its own race? If I'm
understanding this right.

The only thing the seal in the middle
(backside of race) does, is keep the
bearing grease from going to the middle of
the hub where there is no bearings. This
really isn't needed at all, 'IF' you fill
the middle void of the hub up with grease
when you put it together. Grease from
bearing can't go there then, if there is no
void (grease already there) to go to.

 

[DR. EVIL]

Not sure why Dad did it but he set the frt wheels on his '51 M out wide, about the 3rd position wide, and the
tractor switched between the loader and the 2M-E picker every year, but it was retired. So I switched it
back, had to pull the cast frt wheels off the spindles, and the inner grease seals were shot. My local CIH
dealer had them, I CHOKED at the price but I'll never replace them again. Back when that M was chore tractor
and loader tractor it was typical to drive through water/mud over a foot deep, and it still could at times.
But like CAT GUY said, Dad filled the hollow front wheel castings with rather heavy gear oil, like around 50
weight, maybe thicker, just like oil lubed semi-truck wheel bearings the frt wheel bearing on these tractors
now last forever TOO. THE three rubber ribs on the grease retainers rub against the INSIDE of the machined
center of the casting but the roughness of the paint and any rust could wear the retainers out. I'd like to
hope I'd find a quart or two of heavy oil in the two front wheels of the Super H. They pack up with snow,
then I park it in my relatively warm shop and the snow melts and probably ends up inside the wheel casting.
If you've never been inside the frt wheels of an H,M,SH,SM,SM-TA,300,350,400,450, you should pull one
apart. Even my Owner's manual for my '39 H said to set the adjustable width frt wheels narrow with
cultivators, loaders, or other heavy front implements.

 

[redforlife]

For mud or stability, the front wheels are better if set wide. The wider the better. For loaders or heavy implements, the manual doesn't recommend this likely because of extra strain the weight puts on the hub casting. I have seen the center hub castings broke and brazed back together. Probably wouldn't be good for a front rim to break off the center casting when doing loader work. Or when you hit chuck holes in road gear with a heavy implement on. Probably why manuel doesn't recommend wide settings for these jobs.

As for using oil instead of grease in the hubs, the oil would be more apt to run out than grease if there wasn't a seal (as in bad seal, or no seal at all) there to stop it. Grease is more tacky and sticky than oil. So would be more apt to stay put than liquid oil.

 

[chhanes]

Local Case IH lists these prices:
Grease retainer, Outer 60291D = $42
Grease retainer, Inner 60290DA = $455

So, yes indeed, the prices are outrageous. I have seen the inner at other places for as high as $800