Farmall Super M hydraulics

[Crookedaxle]

I know this has probably been talked about many times here but can someone give me the description of what the "christmas tree" hydraulic valve does? I have a live hydraulic pump with the "lift all"? under my gas tank if that's what it's called. It is my understanding that this cast tank is the oil reservoir and has the single acting valve in it??? If the valve inside is single acting then why do I have 2 ports on the left rear side of it? I just want to raise and lower a disk or plow with a single acting valve is all. So then what will the additional "christmas tree valve" give me over what I already have?

 

[Hayfarmer]

It gives you 2 way hydraulics. The lift all tank valve is only single action. You have to lock out one to use the other, you can't use both lift all valve and christmas tree together. On lift all valve one port is delayed from other so you can lift front of cultivater and then rear seperatly. If your lift all valve and tank are under the fuel tank you must have a stage 2 SM.

 

[Janicholson]

The 3 ports on the M are connected together inside. THe left rear port is a bit different in that it has a delay action for special attachments like rear
cultivators and other implements of that era. leave it plugged. left front and right front are Ted together and are single stage (one direction) only. A
Christmas tree valve converts the system to 2 way for (double acting) cylinder/s. To use it the single acting control rod is pulled back and held there. the
systen is always open center, so relief fluid and supply fluid have a passage to the reservoir when not lifting. If the implement you need to lift is modest and
designed for low pressure hydraulics you do not need the extra valve.
You state you tractor has live pump. if so it should be located in front of the distributor, and connected to a reservoir then output to a open center valve,
with return to the reservoir. Some conversions use the belly pump as a 6 quart reservoir, and do not use the trans mission driven belly pump as a pump at all.
let us know what you have. pictures have to have moderator permission or 5 posts from you to be allowed. Ask in site Feedack Forum or Site Comments. Jim

 

[Crookedaxle]

(quoted from post at 04:07:37 09/11/22) It gives you 2 way hydraulics. The lift all tank valve is only single action. You have to lock out one to use the other, you can't use both lift all valve and christmas tree together. On lift all valve one port is delayed from other so you can lift front of cultivater and then rear seperatly. If your lift all valve and tank are under the fuel tank you must have a stage 2 SM.

Does the "christmas tree" valve snap back to center like a real two way valve or is it more of a diverter valve? Where is the lift all positioned to be able to use the "christmas tree" valve?

 

[Janicholson]

It centers correctly. It is just a standard 2 way open centered valve that looks and attaches differently. Jim

 

[Crookedaxle]

OK, I think I understand. If all 3 of the ports on the lift all are plugged (which mine are) you pull the lever back and lock the lift all with the small locking tab along the lift all lever. This puts pressure on the double acting "christmas tree" valve when you activate it for either up or down. My "christmas tree" valve is plumbed inline from the pump and the lift all. So then if you intend on using the lift all does the "christmas tree" valve have to be positioned on either side of neutral (up or down) then?

 

[Janicholson]

Your tractor had or has a non-live hydraulic pump in the belly. The evidence for this is the outlet fittings and control rod. If you have all the ports plugged on
the left and right sides, the output of the Belly pump is blocked, it is not being used. The previous owner probably is using only the 6 quarts of the reservoir,
and may have disconnected the drive coupling from the belly pump that connects it to the transmission countershaft. This is often done when a live engine
driven pump is put on. If your control rod connects only to the Christmas tree valve it should work pushed and pulled. If you have 2 rods, the rod connected to
the belly pump might not do anything. or if it does, it would just load the engine some as the pump can't have output through its ports. So your system uses the
belly pump as a reservoir only. Jim

 

[Crookedaxle]

(quoted from post at 06:15:21 09/11/22) Your tractor had or has a non-live hydraulic pump in the belly. The evidence for this is the outlet fittings and control rod. If you have all the ports plugged on
the left and right sides, the output of the Belly pump is blocked, it is not being used. The previous owner probably is using only the 6 quarts of the reservoir,
and may have disconnected the drive coupling from the belly pump that connects it to the transmission countershaft. This is often done when a live engine
driven pump is put on. If your control rod connects only to the Christmas tree valve it should work pushed and pulled. If you have 2 rods, the rod connected to
the belly pump might not do anything. or if it does, it would just load the engine some as the pump can't have output through its ports. So your system uses the
belly pump as a reservoir only. Jim

No, it's never had a belly pump. It doesn't even have the slotted shaft for the drive dog, that shaft has a casting over it. I'm referring to the lift all as the cast tank/valve under the tank as explained earlier in the thread. It's a stage 2 SM.

 

[D Slater]

Valving inside the liftall is pretty much the same as the one used in center housing. Due to different mounting on the liftal you have, when new the top port on left side was connected by a short hose to pipe mounted on fuel tank and steering support with openings on both sides of tractor. lower port could be used for anything but was designed for delayed drop of rear cultivators. Or delayed lift if a delay lift valve was installed in line to cultivator rear section. If rod operating the liftall unit is pushed slowly forward the the pressure to front line would be released before lower port. With a remote control valve with lines to rear they don't need plugged if quick disconnects are used. Same for line or lines from under tank unit. Both the unit or valve have the little piece to turn and lock lever engaged when wanting to send pressure to other valve.

 

[used red MN]

If your Christmas tree valve is plumbed in line with the
cast iron Lift-all unit then it is plumbed incorrectly. The
pump pressure and return should run directly to the
Lift-all unit and not tee or run through anything else.
The Lift-all in this original configuration mimics the
operation of a belly pump style Lift-all but it just
produces LIVE one-way hydraulics. The Christmas tree
is an addition valve that was optional or could be
added later to provide two-way hydraulics. The
Christmas tree should get its pressure and flow from
one of the ports of the Lift-all cast box.

 

[D Slater]

he may be referring to the two tees, one on suction and one on pressure line. when using the two way valve it's return oil dumps back into the suction line. Since the unit in rear is engaged with outlets blocked when using the front valve pressure line sends pressure to front valve. Relief valve in rear unit will still control pressure. Little lever below both operating levers let you lock one engaged when using the other. If front valve was left in center no pressure would make it to liftall. It would just go in circle at the remote control valve. Sane thing the other way. Picture not the best.

.

 

[Whiskey Bent]

There is 1 of this on eBay right now, how do you hook this up?

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[Crookedaxle]

(quoted from post at 20:35:54 09/11/22) he may be referring to the two tees, one on suction and one on pressure line. when using the two way valve it's return oil dumps back into the suction line. Since the unit in rear is engaged with outlets blocked when using the front valve pressure line sends pressure to front valve. Relief valve in rear unit will still control pressure. Little lever below both operating levers let you lock one engaged when using the other. If front valve was left in center no pressure would make it to liftall. It would just go in circle at the remote control valve. Sane thing the other way. Picture not the best.

.

Yes, that's how mine is hooked up. Looking at the picture, it doesn't look like both lines going to the quick connects go to the valve? Or is the picture just deceiving?

 

[Jim Becker]

That is a selective lift valve, different thing.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I have a 1953 Super M with the two-way valve plumbed in factory.

The way it looks to me is that it is in "parallel" with the liftall. Two paths for the oil to flow. Unless one path is blocked, neither will work. Hence I concluded that:

If you want to use the two-way valve you need to pull the liftall lever and latch it back.

If you want to use the liftall valve for one-way hydraulics you need to pull the two-way lever and latch it back.

 

[D Slater]

Looked at a picture in a SMTA operators manual. Picture was a little clearer but still hard to see the one remote hose that connects to right of the other one looking from rear of tractor forward.

 

[Crookedaxle]

(quoted from post at 13:15:29 09/12/22) I have a 1953 Super M with the two-way valve plumbed in factory.

The way it looks to me is that it is in "parallel" with the liftall. Two paths for the oil to flow. Unless one path is blocked, neither will work. Hence I concluded that:

If you want to use the two-way valve you need to pull the liftall lever and latch it back.

If you want to use the liftall valve for one-way hydraulics you need to pull the two-way lever and latch it back.

Yup, that's what I conclude also.

 

[fastfarmall]

That's off a Farmralle expoermental hyd system as far as i know !!!