First 8N

[Bill Brox]

Hi,

I thought 9 in 9N stood for the year it first came out, 1939, and 2N for 1942. And, for the 8N I thought it was in 1948. But, I see in one forum on Facebook two people claim they have a 1947 Ford 8N... so, now I am very curious what people in here have to say about this.

Thanks in advance.


Bill

 

[Royse]

You are correct on the models and the model years.
Production of the 1948 model year 8N started in late 1947.
Similar to the way the 2019 cars are out now.

 

[L.B,]

9N was changed to 2N because of World War II price freezes. With this change Ford could raise the price as new models were exempt. Or so the story goes. L.B, Master of the obvious

 

[Kirk-NJ]

Production for the 8n started middle of July 1947. I remember seeing a photo years ago of the last 2n and first 8n built. They were side by side. I have a couple of 8n's that were built in '47 but they are still considered a '48

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Here's the story. The FORD vehicle classification system designated the letter "N" to identify the vehicle as a tractor. No particular reason, it was just the next available letter. Henry Ford liked to keep things simple. Did you know there was a Model A vehicle before the 1928 Model A? Also, a Model B in between the early V8's? When he got thru the alphabet he started over. The Model 'T' was just named because 'T' was the next letter and to keep his car trials and failures straight, he used letters to identify each model. Yes, the numbers that followed the 'N' designated Model Year the unit was initially released fo. Hence the '9' designated model year 1939, the '2' designated model year 1942, and the '8' designated model year 1948. The Model 8N was released on July 7, 1947. Design and production began over a year prior to. Yes, the early, early 8N's were built in 1947 but the letter code defines the unit as the NEW model for model year 1948. My early 8N, s/n *8N-I55I3* has the engine casting code (located on starter pocket) of 'I167' which is defined as September 16, 1947. That is only the date when the block was cast at the Rouge. Cast iron requires a 30 day 'cure' period before it can be machined. It's just an inherent property of cast iron, kind of like seasoning wood before it'll burn effectively. Serial numbers were hand stamped on engine blocks AFTER they were fully machined, cleaned, assembled, and passed QC Inspection and Testing/Break-in. Once ID'd with a s/n, they were moved to a hold area in random fashion, where they were pulled, at random, to move to the assembly line. There was no order, no sense that tractor s/n 002 had to follow s/n 001, follow? The notion guys have to always try to pinpoint the exact day their tractor was built is ludicrous -it just ain't gonna happen. They didn't keep records that precise. didn't care. The only records were when finished units got shipped out, and then lots would have a hodge-podge mixture of serial numbered units, follow? Here is why you need to ID an early 8N with a 1947 casting date code. Try going to a parts supplier and ask for say a throttle linkage rod for a 1947 FORD tractor. Chances are they'll give you a 2N part, totally different than the 8N throttle rod and they don't interchange. Other examples would be the hydraulic pump, rear wheels, and steering boxes. See? Some parts do carry over from the 9N/2N to the 8N but many don't. So, if a guy wants to call his early 8N a 1947 model, far out. The important thing is to know if you have, A) front mount or side mount distributor; and B) 3-speed or 4-speed transmission. Since many engines were swapped out too, the s/n number really is a moot point. So, like Johnny Cash once sang,"...it's a 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61....I got it one piece at a time..."

[i:654c4848f0][b:654c4848f0]<font size="4">Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)</font>[/b:654c4848f0][/i:654c4848f0]<table width="100" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#000000"><tr><td height="25" colspan="2" bgcolor="#CC0000">

<font color="#FFFFFF" size="3">*9N653I* & *8NI55I3*</font>​

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ONE PIECE AT A TIME JOHNNY CASH

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 03:26:14 08/25/18) Here's the story. The FORD vehicle classification system designated the letter "N" to identify the vehicle as a tractor. No particular reason, it was just the next available letter. Henry Ford liked to keep things simple. Did you know there was a Model A vehicle before the 1928 Model A? Also, a Model B in between the early V8's? When he got thru the alphabet he started over. The Model 'T' was just named because 'T' was the next letter and to keep his car trials and failures straight, he used letters to identify each model. Yes, the numbers that followed the 'N' designated Model Year the unit was initially released fo. Hence the '9' designated model year 1939, the '2' designated model year 1942, and the '8' designated model year 1948. The Model 8N was released on July 7, 1947. Design and production began over a year prior to. Yes, the early, early 8N's were built in 1947 but the letter code defines the unit as the NEW model for model year 1948. My early 8N, s/n *8N-I55I3* has the engine casting code (located on starter pocket) of 'I167' which is defined as September 16, 1947. That is only the date when the block was cast at the Rouge. Cast iron requires a 30 day 'cure' period before it can be machined. It's just an inherent property of cast iron, kind of like seasoning wood before it'll burn effectively. Serial numbers were hand stamped on engine blocks AFTER they were fully machined, cleaned, assembled, and passed QC Inspection and Testing/Break-in. Once ID'd with a s/n, they were moved to a hold area in random fashion, where they were pulled, at random, to move to the assembly line. There was no order, no sense that tractor s/n 002 had to follow s/n 001, follow? The notion guys have to always try to pinpoint the exact day their tractor was built is ludicrous -it just ain't gonna happen. They didn't keep records that precise. didn't care. The only records were when finished units got shipped out, and then lots would have a hodge-podge mixture of serial numbered units, follow? Here is why you need to ID an early 8N with a 1947 casting date code. Try going to a parts supplier and ask for say a throttle linkage rod for a 1947 FORD tractor. Chances are they'll give you a 2N part, totally different than the 8N throttle rod and they don't interchange. Other examples would be the hydraulic pump, rear wheels, and steering boxes. See? Some parts do carry over from the 9N/2N to the 8N but many don't. So, if a guy wants to call his early 8N a 1947 model, far out. The important thing is to know if you have, A) front mount or side mount distributor; and B) 3-speed or 4-speed transmission. Since many engines were swapped out too, the s/n number really is a moot point. So, like Johnny Cash once sang,"...it's a 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61....I got it one piece at a time..."

[i:bd29bd2fd5][b:bd29bd2fd5]&lt;font size="4"&gt;Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)&lt;/font&gt;[/b:bd29bd2fd5][/i:bd29bd2fd5]&lt;table width="100" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#000000"&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td height="25" colspan="2" bgcolor="#CC0000"&gt;&lt;center&gt;&lt;font color="#FFFFFF" size="3"&gt;*9N653I* &amp; *8NI55I3*&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/center&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt;&lt;img src=http://i.imgur.com/4lBA6Yh.jpg&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;&lt;img src= http://i.imgur.com/zzYVuC4.jpg &gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;
ONE PIECE AT A TIME JOHNNY CASH

Tim, I don't recall seeing "guys have to always try to pinpoint the exact day their tractor was built". I see all the time guys wanting to know what year, because of course they are accustomed to the parts counter man's mantra: "need to have year make and model". Us tractor guys know that usually, though there are plenty of serial number breaks, the parts stay the same through the model run. What you may be thinking of Tim, is the frequent response to the request by a few regulars here, when the OP lists all the numbers that he can find including casting numbers. There will frequently be a response in the spirit of YT helpfulness, giving the month day and shift of that casting. Tim, you apparently took keyboarding in high school, LOL.

 

[hunkydory]

My early 8N, s/n *8N-I55I3* has the engine casting code (located on starter pocket) of 'I167' which is defined as September 16, 1947.

Is there a reference where one can look up the various casting codes? I'm curious about how "1167" translates to September 16, 1947.

Thanks!

 

[HFJ]

I = 9th letter of alphabet = 9th month

 

[Dollar Bill]

Is there a reference where one can look up the various casting codes?

Not necessarily a reference but this is one explanation I have in my notes.

There are at least 4 different date code formats out there. Starting with the 8N the date codes consists of a letter followed by 2 or 3 digits.

The first character (letter) calls out the month:
A = Jan
B = Feb
C = Mar
D = Apr
E = May
F = Jun
G = Jul
H = Aug
I = (Not used - Too similar to 1)
J = Sep
K = Oct
L = Nov
M = Dec

The LAST digit calls out the year. Whatever is between the letter and the last digit is the day of the month. So an axle code of A205 translates to Jan 20, 1955. A code of A25 would be January 2, 1955. This date code format is found on 8N engine blocks and axle castings. Starting with the NAA this date code system is pretty much limited to axle castings. Other parts started using a different system starting with NAA and X00 series. This system has 3 characters. The first character is a digit and calls out the year (5=1955, 6=1956, 7=1957). The second character is most likely a digit but could be a letter (A or B). This calls out the month:
1 = Jan
2 = Feb
3 = Mar
4 = Apr
5 = May
6 = Jun
7 = Jul
8 = Aug
9 = Sep
0 = Oct
A = Nov
B = Dec

The last character calls out the day of the month and is a letter. This gets a little weird because there are usually 30 or 31 days in a month but only 26 letters in the alphabet. Plus they don't use the letter I so that only leaves 25 letters used.
A = 1
B = 2
C = 3
D = 4
E = 5
F = 6
G = 7
H = 8
J = 9
K = 10
L = 11
M = 12
N = 13
O = 14
P = 15
Q = 16
R = 17
S = 18
T = 19
U = 20
V = 21
W = 22
X = 23
Y = 24
Z = 25

The rest of the days are like this:
26 = Upside down A
27 = Backwards B
28 = Backwards C
29 = Backwards D
30 = Backwards E
31 = Backwards F

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Perhaps none have posted lately but it use to be prevalent all the time. I never had typing in high school. I was self-taught when I was in engineering, then did take a formal class at the local community college in 1990. English was my minor in college, Mechanical Engineering was my major. Yes, I do like to write. I've written many articles for The N-News, The F/FCA Journal; Antique Tractors; et al and am the current editor of "Ford Tool Times" put out by NAFTCO. Thus, my posts may get long-winded to some, but I try to provide as much information as possible in my replies/answers.

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

FORD nomenclature for engine block casting codes:

First, letter, A-L, defines month with 'A' being January and 'L' being December. And yes, they did use the letter "I" on date codes, at least in the beginning. I know, I have the date code of "I167" on my early 8N block and I've seen others with an "I" as well. The confusion reigns because serial numbers, being hand-stamped, used the letter "I" for the numeral "1". Casting Date codes were not hand stamped. They were cast raised characters on a boss tag right on the block. The middle code is a 1-2 digit number from 1-31,designating the DAY of the month block was cast. The last digit is simply the last single number in the year the block was cast, defined as "7" = 1947; "8" = 1948, etc. Thus, "I167" denotes my block was cast on September 16, 1947. Now, starter and generator date code stamps were different. They had ?manufacturing date code stamps?, marked as the day and year the unit was built. It showed the FORD logo and early units were preceded with the STAR symbol. A capital letter followed, designating month. Beginning with the letter ?L? for 1931, the nomenclature would then define the letter ?T? as for the year 1939. The letter was followed by a one or two digit number, 1-12 defining the month. Thus a ?T-12? stamped date code defined the unit as being built in December, 1939.

FORD 8N ENGINE BLOCK CASTING DATE CODE ?I167?:

FORD 1939 GENERATOR MANUFACTURING DATE CODE STAMP, ?T-12?:

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

 

[Bruce (VA)]

If you go to the Ford dealership this Fall and buy a new 2019 F-150 in October, the title will say 2019. So will the registration. The model year is 2019. When you need parts for it, you will specify 2019 as the year of your truck. But the truck was made in 2018 and sold in 2018.


The "model year" for the first 8N's made in 1947 and sold in 1947 is 1948. Just like a vehicle.
75 Tips

 

[hunkydory]

Many thanks, everyone! My mistake in misreading the "I" for a "1".