Jim in Ma.
Well-known Member
Could you lay some planks down where the wheels run???
I agree with the 2x10 idea. If you stop and think about it, people drive much larger tractors than an N onto trailers which have nothing but 2x's for a floor. Or just top your existing floor with 2x8 or 2x10's and be done with it. Just make sure your floor is supported well to keep it from sagging. I have a bridge made out of an old semi-trailer spanning 40 feet of a small stream crossing my driveway, and I used oak 2x8's (across the beams) for the floor, and routinely drive a fairly large diesel tractor loaded across it.
NYC Charlie
Member
Please consult a structural engineer. You will get lots of opinions here I'm sure. But, people are giving you suggestions and no one has even asked the most important question, which is whether the joists are sitting on the ground or clear spanning some distance?
I'm going to assume the joists are clear spanning, i.e. only supported at the ends. If so there are many factors at play such as how deep are the floor joists? Are they clear spanning or supported at some intermediate point? How are they anchored at the ends? Hangers or nails through a rim joist? What condition are they in? How far do they span? What material are they made of? Old growth pine or new wood that has far less strength? Every kind of wood has its own strength characteristics.
How are the joists cross-braced? Are the joists parallel to the direction you are going to be driving in and out or perpendicular? What kind of plywood are you talking about? Eight-ply CD or surely not OSB? Each kind has its own structural characteristics. What kind of strength can you buy by glueing and nailing the plywood a few inches on center instead of 12"?
What makes this so difficult is that you are talking about moving four point-loads across a distance of . . . well, we don't know how many feet, with far more weight on the back end than the front, if you have loaded tires. Dynamic (moving) point loads of 1000 lbs are not what are typically considered by span tables you will see on the Web.
So, that makes this situation different than most. And that's why you should talk to a professional. A good structural or civil engineer can tell you if what you want to do is doable in five minutes, and if so exactly what you should do in ten more.
Bottom line, life safety is the issue here.
Charlie
Registered architect, Kansas, Colorado, New York State
I'm going to assume the joists are clear spanning, i.e. only supported at the ends. If so there are many factors at play such as how deep are the floor joists? Are they clear spanning or supported at some intermediate point? How are they anchored at the ends? Hangers or nails through a rim joist? What condition are they in? How far do they span? What material are they made of? Old growth pine or new wood that has far less strength? Every kind of wood has its own strength characteristics.
How are the joists cross-braced? Are the joists parallel to the direction you are going to be driving in and out or perpendicular? What kind of plywood are you talking about? Eight-ply CD or surely not OSB? Each kind has its own structural characteristics. What kind of strength can you buy by glueing and nailing the plywood a few inches on center instead of 12"?
What makes this so difficult is that you are talking about moving four point-loads across a distance of . . . well, we don't know how many feet, with far more weight on the back end than the front, if you have loaded tires. Dynamic (moving) point loads of 1000 lbs are not what are typically considered by span tables you will see on the Web.
So, that makes this situation different than most. And that's why you should talk to a professional. A good structural or civil engineer can tell you if what you want to do is doable in five minutes, and if so exactly what you should do in ten more.
Bottom line, life safety is the issue here.
Charlie
Registered architect, Kansas, Colorado, New York State
Jubilee85 (VA)
Member
Lots of questions,
What holds up the shed? A sled of some sorts? Floor joists are 2x ??
Need to know the support UNDER the floor - for example - a 12' wide shed might have a 2x6 floor sitting on top of a "sled" that is spaced something like 8'-10' apart. Or it might not have a sled at all. If no sled then on block? and where are the block located? Someone will have to go under the floor to place block at correct places if this applies.
The resting on 4 points is another good point, no pun entended. A tractor with loaded tires will be 3000 lb + that is 750+ per tire, and with a contact patch of less than 4 square inches, that places about 200 psi each part of the floor - that is assuming that the weight is 50-50 all the way around.
Like Charlie said - be careful and spend an extra buck or two. Coming out to see your tractor though the floor would ruin your day!!!
What holds up the shed? A sled of some sorts? Floor joists are 2x ??
Need to know the support UNDER the floor - for example - a 12' wide shed might have a 2x6 floor sitting on top of a "sled" that is spaced something like 8'-10' apart. Or it might not have a sled at all. If no sled then on block? and where are the block located? Someone will have to go under the floor to place block at correct places if this applies.
The resting on 4 points is another good point, no pun entended. A tractor with loaded tires will be 3000 lb + that is 750+ per tire, and with a contact patch of less than 4 square inches, that places about 200 psi each part of the floor - that is assuming that the weight is 50-50 all the way around.
Like Charlie said - be careful and spend an extra buck or two. Coming out to see your tractor though the floor would ruin your day!!!
NYC Charlie
Member
It will more than ruin it if you, a friend or a loved one is on that tractor and the floor gives way.
dakota dave
Member
When I lived in michigan I used a 12X16 Portable shed for my tractor. I took the floor out. used treated 4x4 for the runnuer under the wall put 4inches of gravel in it. and then layed the plywood directly on the gravel. floor never gave at all. In minnesota We had a grage withe a slab floor layed directly on raised gravel in had been like that since the 1940s
NYC Charlie
Member
You were definitely on the right track, Showcrop. I don't know much about wrenching but this is definitely something I do know about.
Quazar, if you are still with us, here is a link to a structural engineering website I would consider to be (with all due respect) a better place to ask your questions:
http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=507
That said, I am not sure it is a good idea to try and get structural advice from even qualified engineers based on questions you ask over the web. There is much at stake and it is easy for people to misunderstand your questions.
Far better for someone to actually SEE the conditions with their own eyes.
Quazar, if you are still with us, here is a link to a structural engineering website I would consider to be (with all due respect) a better place to ask your questions:
http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=507
That said, I am not sure it is a good idea to try and get structural advice from even qualified engineers based on questions you ask over the web. There is much at stake and it is easy for people to misunderstand your questions.
Far better for someone to actually SEE the conditions with their own eyes.
You definitely need a structural engineer to look at what you want to do.
There is a company down the road making pre-fab 1-car garage buildings with a plywood floor. The building I looked at was 12 feet wide. The floor is 1" tongue and groove plywood over 2x10s that are 12" on centers, running across the width of the building. HOWEVER! The 2x10s are supported on two skids that are each made up of three 2x12s. The skids are 6 or 7 feet apart and run the entire length of the building.
The floor joists that support a vehicle in this building have ZERO span with regard to the majority of the weight that will be on the floor. The tires will sit directly on top of the two skids. The skids also have zero span because they are made to be placed right on the ground.
The sign for this building was very clear that it was intended for STORAGE only. You cannot use a jack or jack stands in such a building. They will likely just punch a hole in the floor at the worst possible moment.
There is a company down the road making pre-fab 1-car garage buildings with a plywood floor. The building I looked at was 12 feet wide. The floor is 1" tongue and groove plywood over 2x10s that are 12" on centers, running across the width of the building. HOWEVER! The 2x10s are supported on two skids that are each made up of three 2x12s. The skids are 6 or 7 feet apart and run the entire length of the building.
The floor joists that support a vehicle in this building have ZERO span with regard to the majority of the weight that will be on the floor. The tires will sit directly on top of the two skids. The skids also have zero span because they are made to be placed right on the ground.
The sign for this building was very clear that it was intended for STORAGE only. You cannot use a jack or jack stands in such a building. They will likely just punch a hole in the floor at the worst possible moment.
wow, thanks for all the info.. some to throw back at you all too. The building is 14X28. joists are what apprear to be 2X6. not sure on the rest of the info which tells me it is time to start ripping into it. I know the building is on a "sled". there is 4x4s under it. it housed 2 horses for 6 or so years. i will take your advice charlie and see about this other site. Thanks again for all the info.
NYC Charlie
Member
Well, Quazar, if a horse weights about 1000 lbs (average) and your factory spec for an 8N is 2,340...and you add 200+ pounds for each loaded tire...plus a brush hog...well you get the picture. That's a lot more weight than a horse.
By code, the load for the floor in your house is 40 lbs per square foot + 10 lbs per square for the weight of the building material itself. This is designed to be a uniformly distributed load, not a concentrated load.
Spruce/pine/fir 2x6s space 16" OC will only span about 10 feet and still meet that code, that's properly braced side to side with bridging, that's a uniformly distributed load. As I said you are talking about multiple point loads moving, not simple uniformly distributed loads. That's a calculation of a much greater complexity you won't find in load span tables.
Better check in at the structural engineering website.
Glad to help + good luck! PLAY SAFE.
Charlie
By code, the load for the floor in your house is 40 lbs per square foot + 10 lbs per square for the weight of the building material itself. This is designed to be a uniformly distributed load, not a concentrated load.
Spruce/pine/fir 2x6s space 16" OC will only span about 10 feet and still meet that code, that's properly braced side to side with bridging, that's a uniformly distributed load. As I said you are talking about multiple point loads moving, not simple uniformly distributed loads. That's a calculation of a much greater complexity you won't find in load span tables.
Better check in at the structural engineering website.
Glad to help + good luck! PLAY SAFE.
Charlie
After reading these posts I would forget the shed.Buy 4 treated 4x6 posts put em in 3 foot deep holes and build a small pole barn.Put a sheet of plastic on the floor and add a layer of crushed stone.The shelter for the power head of my band saw mill cost 200 bucks.I had some of the lumber. bought the posts and sawed out the rest.It is open to the north, very little snow blows in side.Fellow asked why it faced north.That shelters me from the hot sun while sawing lumber.My floor will never cave in.All old time wood sheds have a dirt floor here.Most hold 10 cord of sawed wood.My tractors will get their own shelter this summer, built the same way as the saw shed.Walls are done in board and batten white cedar.Metal roofing now costs less than asphalt shingles.
well i cant say i did not think of that. i priced out a 24X24 pole barn and the best deal came back around $2400. now i was going to do this until my sister decided to move her horse. now i am going to have this "oversize Shed" empty. so i figured why not use what i have, should be able to save myself money.
You can set 4 treated posts 12x12.The posts are 18 bucks each.A 12x12 building will house your tractor fine.My shelter cost 200 bucks to frame up.I bought close out asphalt shingles for the roof.I sawed the roof and siding materials from my woods.I built the frame in hot weather for 200 bucks.I finished later in September.
TheOldHokie
Well-known Member
- Location
- Myersville, MD 21773
Lets be sensible here - have you ever seen the floor in a 100 year old farmer built barn? If the joists are sitting on grade deck it with PT 2x6 and you will be fine. That is basically a HD equipment trailer deck. Personally I would lay additional PT 2x6's flat on the ground under the joists to prevent thm from sinking into the ground. Run the 2x6's 90* to the joists and space them 16 OC. If the floor has to be raised slightly above grade to make it level skip the 2x6's and use 4x6 PT timbers on 18" round poured concrete piers (SonaTube) instead. Limit the span to 8' or less and space the timbers 4' OC. Make sure the piers are set below the frost line and use some sort of metal tie to secure the timbers to the piers. At this point you are likely in need of a building permit :lol: If you want to get really fancy screw down a top course of 4x8 T&G underlayment layed 90* to the decking. I flat out gaurantee you that will hold any AG tractor you can get in the building.
TOH - not a structural engineer - just an over builder.
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