FNG... intro and 8N

[CaverDave]

Well, not quite yet, but will pick it up weekend after next...

Backstory: 3 years ago, my wife & I moved across the border from NC to VA. Initially, 30 acres w/ house, but last Nov., we bought the adjoining 58 acres w/ what was the PO's "retirement man-cave/shop" (35x45 stick built, 4" masonry stubs, epoxied floors w/ drains, HVAC, full bath, kitchenette, and "bedroom" = he was going to use as a paint booth for motorcycles/tractors/etc. post retirement, once they built a house across the way).
88 acres that are 90% wooded and very hilly, a mile of road/drive, and 5-6 acres of pasture. Despite being in a rural/agricultural area where "everyone has a tractor", getting anyone to commit to any tractor work is like asking someone to cut off their head or hand over their money... we're tired of asking and don't need a $20k+ tractor

Enter my "uncle" that offered up his 8N for what appears to be a decent price (he has several green tractors and wants to reclaim the covered space it's taking up). Serial number (8N26?2670) says early 1950 with front dizzy and straight up 4 speed (no Sherman/other range boxes). Hasn't run in 6 years, but always been under cover and *had* antifreeze in the block (appears to be gone/very low). Very little "color" left on it (patina/surface rust), but was running then and 100% complete. New rear tires (pattern doesn't match) and fronts (4x19) are dry-rotted badly, but holding air and he says they were like that 10 years ago. Comes with (un-installed) Dennis Carpenter 12V conversion, and both printed parts & shop manuals, but no implements.

Main tasks I think the 70 y/o 8N is suited for here,,, please tell me if wrong:
- Bushhogging the 5-6 acres spring/fall (my commercial Bobcat zeroturn struggles when it gets taller than 10")
- Occasional grading/maintenance of road/drive
- Plowing a small garden
- Potentially running a PTO chipper (80 acres of downed limbs)
- Moving Jeeps around and pulling engines (with boom pole).
Since I mentioned "hilly" and my pucker factor of rolling over being huge (seen/heard/read about too many accidents), would like to widen the stance and appears 72" would still fit on my equipment trailer. Are there any long-term issues with that?

I'm a decent wrench that grew up in an IH dealership, worked in Dad's small engine shop (once he left the dealership), have a fleet of old Jeeps and 3 generations of tools. Have a few gazillion hours on more "modern" tractors, but none this "spartan" (simple) and the first I've owned...So, not really worried that I can't get it running and keep it that way, given the 8N's popularity, parts availability, and support. First order will be to give it a bath and get it running, but not sure if I should do the 12V conversion first, since that alone could complicate matters? Once running/tuned, change all the fluids, lube it up good, make sure the BRAKES are in good working order and put it's arse to work! Don't really care 2 spits what it look like, as long as it's reliable and safe (code for ain't doing a restoration... too many other projects!)

 

[Btzj02]

I looked into a wood chipper not too long ago and I would say that that may be a stretch for the 8N. At least it was a stretch for the chipper I was looking at! I decided that making brush piles and burning was more efficient.

This is my personal opinion only but working on an 8N is part of owning an 8N. If you do not enjoy tinkering with the 8N it might not be a good fit.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

We have owned our 2N for 33 years and it has done everything I've asked of it very satisfactorily. I even baled our entire front field with it years ago.
I don't own a chipper or boom pole so can't speak to that.
We too live on VERY hilly ground. Our tires are filled with ballast, just above center line to keep CG low.
I have always been impressed with how well our 2N and 8N do on side hills.
You said you are a good wrench? Forget the 12V mistake unless you have a very good reason.
Have fun!

 

[Btzj02]

Agree on the 6V sentiment!

 

[formerjackman]

Sounds like your situation is very similar to mine...i live in a hilly area (VA...where VA, TN and NC come together) and do all the tasks you list except the wood chipper. I've had my 8N for 17 years and had only minor issues.
First thing i did was install a ROPS on it, then made sure the brakes were in top condition, filled the rear tires with anti-freeze, and put on an ORC (vital when using a bush hog).

 

[Ultradog MN]

Don't restore it.
You'll have Way more $ in it than it's
worth.
Fix it as required. Use it. They will still
do a lot of useful work. But always keep
the idea of an upgrade in the back of your
mind. A 600 or 800, 2000, 3000 or 4000 -
even a 5000 - is what I would have
recommended for that much land and that
long of a road.
You may not be familiar with some of these
things like live hydraulics, live or
independent PTO, differential lock or
remote hydraulics yet. But you know what
more gears, more power, diesel engine and
power steering can do. They are all Very
useful and each of them expands the
potential of a tractor.

 

[CaverDave]

(quoted from post at 14:08:20 12/29/20) Forget the 12V mistake unless you have a very good reason.

(quoted from post at 14:12:45 12/29/20) Agree on the 6V sentiment!

OK, enlighten me on the virtues of 6V versus the evils of 12V?

While I know 6V batteries are available, around here they appear to command a premium...

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Well, obvious virtue #1 is that your tractor has ran on 6V for 70 years. Pretty good trial period; right?
Our 6V batteries last for 8 or 10 years and have a reasonable cost.
Your 8N is really a fun and easy machine to keep in tip-top running shape as it is IF you take the time for normal maintenance.
In top running condition (like mine), you will barely hear the starter and it pops and runs like a champ.
12V will not and CANNOT improve on that.
But remember; it's your tractor. Do what ever you darn well please.
My $0.02.

 

[Jim WI]

(quoted from post at 14:23:02 12/29/20)

(quoted from post at 14:08:20 12/29/20) Forget the 12V mistake unless you have a very good reason.

(quoted from post at 14:12:45 12/29/20) Agree on the 6V sentiment!

OK, enlighten me on the virtues of 6V versus the evils of 12V?

While I know 6V batteries are available, around here they appear to command a premium...

Both 6V and 12V can be made to work well. If the tractor starts and runs well on 6V, you've no reason to convert unless:
- you want brighter headlights.
- you need to run something (a sprayer for example) that needs 12V.
If the tractor doesn't start well and run well on 6V, it's a good idea to fix what is wrong first. That said, 12V tends to be more forgiving for tired engines.

My father had a 2N that started and ran well on 6V. I had a 2N that I converted to 12V (it started and ran well on 6V before the conversion). I knew how to do it and had no problems. Note that most of the posts about 12V conversions are either "How do I do it?" or "What is wrong with my conversion?"

 

[Ultradog MN]

6V was standard when single circuit drum
brakes, vacuum operated wipers, 3 on the
tree transmissions, straight 8 engines,
bias ply tires with tubes, lever arm
hydraulic shock absorbers and straight
weight oils were standard in our
automobiles.
None of that stuff was better than we have
now but since that's all people had they
liked it.
Some people still like that stuff.
Perhaps they're nostalgic and want their
tractor to be like Grandpa had it.
Thats okay.
But even the most nostalgic, most diehard
restorer realizes that the mechanical
components I listed above are not better.
They may be cool or quaint or interesting.
They may be adequate. They may make the
owner feel good to have their 1953 Packard
or N tractor just like it came off the
assembly line. But those old components are
not better.
The 6V/12V debate has been going on for a
long time and will likely go on forever.
It's your tractor. Power it how you choose.
Just dont try to tell me that a 6V system
is better. Or that 12V is a mistake.
12V is better. Its better in every possible
way.

 

[a32vickyhotrod]

(quoted from post at 14:59:07 12/29/20) 6V was standard when single circuit drum
brakes, vacuum operated wipers, 3 on the
tree transmissions, straight 8 engines,
bias ply tires with tubes, lever arm
hydraulic shock absorbers and straight
weight oils were standard in our
automobiles.
None of that stuff was better than we have
now but since that's all people had they
liked it.
Some people still like that stuff.
Perhaps they're nostalgic and want their
tractor to be like Grandpa had it.
Thats okay.

Well said, sometimes you just have to have some thick skin when converting to new technology around the Antique crowd.
I have had to deal with it for years after cutting up and modifying old cars.
But even the most nostalgic, most diehard
restorer realizes that the mechanical
components I listed above are not better.
They may be cool or quaint or interesting.
They may be adequate. They may make the
owner feel good to have their 1953 Packard
or N tractor just like it came off the
assembly line. But those old components are
not better.
The 6V/12V debate has been going on for a
long time and will likely go on forever.
It's your tractor. Power it how you choose.
Just dont try to tell me that a 6V system
is better. Or that 12V is a mistake.
12V is better. Its better in every possible
way.

 

[TractorTucker]

It will handle a bush hog fine, you should
use an over running clutch on the pto
though. The reason for this is that the
pto is driven off of the transmission,
when you have the big heavy blade of a
bush hog rotating and you want to stop, it
will continue to push you forward until
that blade stops spinning. An ORC allows
the blade to continue spinning without
driving the tractor forward. I have never
seen an 8n power a wood chipper but I
assume it would work fine for a smaller
one.
Personally I like converting my tractors
to 12v, it allows me to use brighter
lights and allows me to take the battery
out of one thing and put it in another
without worrying about the voltage of the
battery. 12v batteries are also more
available where I live.

 

[Eman85]

An 8N is a fun tractor and you will like it. But someday you'll have the chance to use a tractor from the 60's or 70's and you'll be ruined.

 

[Tracy Brown]

X2

 

[Husker 50 8n]

I also have an early 1950 8n. When ordering parts you will need to be careful as some of the parts are a little different from early to late 8n. More than just the distributor and steering box. Sounds like you've got a good handle on what the 8n needs and can do. Since you are in the hills overhauling the brakes is a good plan and probably replace the seals while you have that apart. Leaking seals are part of the problem with weak brakes on the 8n. The brakes are ok in good condition but when soaked in oil become almost non-existant. I used my 8n and 6' blade to maintain a gravel driveway. It won't move large rocks or cut hard, packed roads but did a great job smoothing small ruts and leveling the gravel. If the driveway gets too hard grade it after a rain when the ground is softer. The non-live 3 point is a little inconvenient at times but you get used to it after a while and try to raise the blade while moving if possible. The downside to moving the wheels out is a 6' blade won't cover the wheel tracks and a 5' bush hog will not allow you to cut next to a building or fence with the tires set out to a wider stance. If you do decide the 8n is not quite enough tractor the 800/801 series is a pretty big jump in capability for just a little more money and you still have the stability of the 8n.

 

[tugman]

(quoted from post at 10:08:20 12/29/20) We have owned our 2N for 33 years and it has done everything I've asked of it very satisfactorily. I even baled our entire front field with it years ago.
I don't own a chipper or boom pole so can't speak to that.
We too live on VERY hilly ground. Our tires are filled with ballast, just above center line to keep CG low.
I have always been impressed with how well our 2N and 8N do on side hills.
You said you are a good wrench? Forget the 12V mistake unless you have a very good reason.
Have fun!

Now Harry,
What do you mean "Mistake", that is your OWN opinion nothing more!
Nothing at all wrong changing over to 12 volt, nothing at all!
I did and my 49 8n and it runs fine no issues period.... but it still retains the look of a 6 volt system.
As well as my 1952 Chrysler Ace Marine engine is 12 volt been fine for 20 years !
If your a 6 volt purist thats fine I don't care, let the man do what he wants with HIS tractor...
Seriously... "mistake"......

 

[zuhnc]

I have 12V and electronic ignition on my '51 8N. Needed rewiring and a new battery, as the previous owner had no clue as to how to fix it. Starts almost instantly at 20*F. It will handle a 5' brush cutter with no issues. An overrunning clutch is a MUST. Takes some getting used to and being creative with no live pto or hydraulics. I have "mowed 3" cedar trees and 4' brush in a pasture with mine. As well as blackberry brambles and a variety of other things (among them a half of a rear tractor tire, the PO had buried), including fence wire, and other assorted debris. Now down for rear seals; gear lube produces no braking power. zuhnc

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Another word of encouragement as you are just getting things started:
Don't wait until you desperately need a certain implement to begin searching for it.
Try to attend farm auctions and watch the ads and buy ahead.
I bought my 4 wheel hay rake for $125.00 and Dearborn spring tooth for $100.00 at a farm auction years ago.
Many similar good buys since.
But when I bought a sprayer and fertilizer spreader, I needed them NOW, NOW, NOW!!!'
Got screwed on both for price.
Buy ahead!

 

[Bruce(OR)]

A few years ago I was witness to a chipper on the back end of a Fergy TE-20, The same size as the 8N. Engaging it to run was a case of
bumping the clutch to get the chipper flywheel to start turning. Once that flywheel was spinning on the chipper, it did a decent job.
I was told that green wood works the best on the chipper. I ran it once or twice and figured the burn pile was easier. Then again, my closest
neighbor is about 1/4 mile away and the next one is 1/2 mile.

 

[Btzj02]

OK, enlighten me on the virtues of 6V versus the evils of 12V?

Back when I was considering switching to 12 volt my motivation was to get more energy at the spark plug. The best I can glean from all the information out there and here is that the energy delivered to the spark plug is relatively the same in both cases. The second reason I was looking into a 12 volt conversion was that I wanted brighter LED lights front and rear. I opted for installing a 6V to 12V DC convertor, (affectionately known as black box voodoo magic), sized to handle the amp draw for the lights. The best reason I can see for a 12v conversion is if you need a power supply for a sprayer pump, boom box or some other attachment. I have a second compact tractor that is used with such implements. The best two reason I have for keeping the 6volt system are: I like the way the tractor looks with a 6 volt system and it works! I just Hate the look of that alternator sticking out there!

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 11:23:54 12/30/20) OK, enlighten me on the virtues of 6V versus the evils of 12V?

Back when I was considering switching to 12 volt my motivation was to get more energy at the spark plug. The best I can glean from all the information out there and here is that the energy delivered to the spark plug is relatively the same in both cases. The second reason I was looking into a 12 volt conversion was that I wanted brighter LED lights front and rear. I opted for installing a 6V to 12V DC convertor, (affectionately known as black box voodoo magic), sized to handle the amp draw for the lights. The best reason I can see for a 12v conversion is if you need a power supply for a sprayer pump, boom box or some other attachment. I have a second compact tractor that is used with such implements. The best two reason I have for keeping the 6volt system are: I like the way the tractor looks with a 6 volt system and it works! I just Hate the look of that alternator sticking out there!

The best justification for 12V is that [u:0194c2fe97]best case[/u:0194c2fe97] the 8N 6V generator maxes out at 20A. Earlier models were half that. That is pretty dammn (sic) skimpy when you start adding frivolous electrical accessories like lights......

TOH

 

[Tomatoboy]

Just out of curiosity, where did you get that ROPS?

 

[formerjackman]

Bought my ROPS from Saf-T-Cab. I think they are now part of OEM Off Highway.

 

[CaverDave]

Thank you for the info on 6V vs 12V... will get it running first and then make a decision, though better lighting may win out there!

Next order of business... implements!

Locally, I've found an IH *3 point* (makes it kinda rare in IH circles given their dislike of the competitions connection methods) C-200 (2) disc plow. From what I've read, they are great for "new ground" and do well in rocky/reclamation (mine will all be "reclaimed" from 50 years of encroachment/compaction = hard clay, lot's of rocks, & 1"-3" Pine stumps). Appears the C-200 was spec'd for the Super C/230 class and aside from type/length, aligns well with the 8N in terms of HP.

What's your thoughts?

 

[CaverDave]

(quoted from post at 14:08:27 01/03/21)
Locally, I've found an IH *3 point* (makes it kinda rare in IH circles given their dislike of the competitions connection methods) C-200 (2) disc plow. From what I've read, they are great for "new ground" and do well in rocky/reclamation (mine will all be "reclaimed" from 50 years of encroachment/compaction = hard clay, lot's of rocks, & 1"-3" Pine stumps). Appears the C-200 was spec'd for the Super C/230 class and aside from type/length, aligns well with the 8N in terms of HP.

What's your thoughts?

The seller says the discs are 28" dia and estimates it weighs about 400#

 

[Bob in Tennessee]

just my .02 cents. I converted my front mount 6V point to 12V with Electronic ignition several years ago. I could not be more pleased.

 

[CaverDave]

(quoted from post at 16:40:11 01/05/21) just my .02 cents. I converted my front mount 6V point to 12V with Electronic ignition several years ago. I could not be more pleased.

Thank you for the info sir

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 15:40:11 01/05/21) just my .02 cents. I converted my front mount 6V point to 12V with Electronic ignition several years ago. I could not be more pleased.

my story is similar to bob's. i converted my front mount 2N to 12 volts soon after i bought it (about 10 years ago), and i put in electronic ignition this last year.

i'm very happy with both.

 

[HFJ]

forgot to say, my arthritis has become less of a fan of pulling that distributor as the years have gone by.

 

[CaverDave]

(quoted from post at 02:07:29 01/07/21)

(quoted from post at 15:40:11 01/05/21) just my .02 cents. I converted my front mount 6V point to 12V with Electronic ignition several years ago. I could not be more pleased.

my story is similar to bob's. i converted my front mount 2N to 12 volts soon after i bought it (about 10 years ago), and i put in electronic ignition this last year.

i'm very happy with both.

Thank you for the information sir!

Having gone thru this process with several old Jeeps, that's been my findings too... they start easily and run better/more consistently than a points setup. I have several that were converted to later model factory electronic ignition's and others with "drop in" (Pertronics).

(quoted from post at 02:11:57 01/07/21)
forgot to say, my arthritis has become less of a fan of pulling that distributor as the years have gone by.

Understood! We're about 2/3rds done replacing the deck boards on a 400sq/ft deck and while we're both still just shy of the 6 decade mark... I'm glad we're doing it NOW vs 5 years from now!

 

[Ultradog MN]

Just so you know,
This forum uses two views - Classic View
and Modern View.
If you make a post in Modern and quote two
different people those of us who use
classic ( which is the majority of us)
don't know who in the heck you are replying
to. And...
Many are like myself and not gonna bother
to click over to Modern to find out.
So you are getting less than half of us
following your train of thought and giving
you the info you seek.
Learn to use classic and how it works. Then
if you prefer modern you'll understand how
the 2 work together (actually, don't work
at all together) and you'll get more out of
this place.

 

[CaverDave]

Thank you sir!

I really like the Modern view for finding the latest responses to a specific subject versus the "1990 BBS"/Classic view... which appears to have little rhyme/reason to the ordering?

 

[R Geiger]

(quoted from post at 09:55:46 01/07/21) Just so you know,
This forum uses two views - Classic View
and Modern View.
If you make a post in Modern and quote two
different people those of us who use
classic ( which is the majority of us)
don't know who in the heck you are replying
to. And...
Many are like myself and not gonna bother
to click over to Modern to find out.
So you are getting less than half of us
following your train of thought and giving
you the info you seek.
Learn to use classic and how it works. Then
if you prefer modern you'll understand how
the 2 work together (actually, don't work
at all together) and you'll get more out of
this place.

I very seldom ever look at the classic view and i really think it is stupid to have two different systems for the same information. I could live with either but i prefer the modern over the old outdate version! each to his own1

 

[CaverDave]

Well it's home and will go into the shop later today!

My uncle found the (repro) Service & Parts/Assembly manuals (I have the I&T FO-4 inbound), and Dennis Carpenter 12v conversion kit/plug wires. Several years ago (after sitting) he was attempting to get it running again, so it's got brand new (not run) plugs and replacement carb.

"Oddities" I noticed include what appear to be 2 different rims (one appears original = multiple coats of flacking paint, where the other is newer OE paint), 2 different brands/Vee patterns of rear tires (both fairly new) and what looks to be a (aftermarket?) stainless steel grill that's in perfect shape.

Aside form getting it running... will clean/re-grease front hubs (right side has a little play or left side is too tight :wink: ), right rear drum looks like the seal may have been leaking a bit (will R&R entire hub/brake assemblies), and the air cleaner may need replacing (components appear to have been bent up and half arse "straightened"?)