Ford 1310 injector pump problems

[MendoBob]

I have a 1985 Ford 1310 tractor, which is actually a Shibura (Shibaura) 3 cylinder machine. I've had it around 8 years, it's always been very difficult to start. I need to run the glow plugs three times, and raise the bucket while cranking to reduce hydraulic back pressure and play the throttle just right in order to get it to start. Too little throttle and I get white smoke, too much throttle and I get black smoke. I have put in new glow plugs, had the injectors rebuilt, and then took them out and had them rechecked twice without improvement.

Mechanic said it needs a new fuel pump, so i sent away for a reconditioned one. These are cam driven pumps which require shims under the pump body in order to adjust the timing. According to the manual, first step is to turn the crankshaft until you are 30° before TDC, then remove the small piston and spring from the number one cylinder port on the pump and open the fuel and let it free flow. Then advance crankshaft until the fuel flow stops. Then it should be at first timing mark on the front pulley. If not, shims must be added or subtracted until the timing is correct. This is called injector pump spill timing procedure.

The problem is that while carrying out the procedure the fuel never does stop free flowing from the number one port on the injector pump. Does this indicate a defective injector pump? The old injector pump also behaves the same way. Or should we complete the installation without timing and look at problems with the hydraulic relief valve?

I would be interested to hear others experience with timing cam driven fuel injection pumps.

Thanks, R-

Forgot to mention: I did an "in frame" rebuild on the engine (new pistons, rings, crank-case bearings and valves a few years ago in an effort to improve compression and starting, with little to show for my efforts, it is still hard to start!

Also, the tractor only has 480 hrs on it :-(

 

[Dieseltech]

The spill timing needs to be done at wide open throttle, fuel rack in RUN position. If done with rack in fuel off position fuel will NEVER stop. Taking shims OUT will ADVANCE the timing, adding shims will RETARD the timing. Port closing is when the lifted plunger top just CLOSES/STOPS fuel entering the plunger/barrel assembly, but if the rack is not in the right spot port might never close. In MOST cases with pumps like this the ORIGINAL shim pack is the correct one to be used. There are also shims INSIDE THE PUMP TAPPETS, the fuel shop has the specs to check and make sure those are correct on the test bench.

 

[Welding man]

I have a 1985 Ford 1310 tractor, which is actually a Shibura (Shibaura) 3 cylinder machine. I've had it around 8 years, it's always been very difficult to start. I need to run the glow plugs three times, and raise the bucket while cranking to reduce hydraulic back pressure and play the throttle just right in order to get it to start. Too little throttle and I get white smoke, too much throttle and I get black smoke. I have put in new glow plugs, had the injectors rebuilt, and then took them out andI had them rechecked twice without improvement.

Mechanic said it needs a new fuel pump, so i sent away for a reconditioned one. These are cam driven pumps which require shims under the pump body in order to adjust the timing. According to the manual, first step is to turn the crankshaft until you are 30° before TDC, then remove the small piston and spring from the number one cylinder port on the pump and open the fuel and let it free flow. Then advance crankshaft until the fuel flow stops. Then it should be at first timing mark on the front pulley. If not, shims must be added or subtracted until the timing is correct. This is called injector pump spill timing procedure.

The problem is that while carrying out the procedure the fuel never does stop free flowing from the number one port on the injector pump. Does this indicate a defective injector pump? The old injector pump also behaves the same way. Or should we complete the installation without timing and look at problems with the hydraulic relief valve?

I would be interested to hear others experience with timing cam driven fuel injection pumps.

Thanks, R-

Forgot to mention: I did an "in frame" rebuild on the engine (new pistons, rings, crank-case bearings and valves a few years ago in an effort to improve compression and starting, with little to show for my efforts, it is still hard to start!

Also, the tractor only has 480 hrs on it :-(

I have worked on several of these engines in New Holland skid steers. Caterpillar now has a version of the same engine that is used in the Princeton 3 wheel forklifts. The last one we worked on ,last month. Someone had installed a new( Chinese) pump on it and presumably had installed it with the old shims. It was hard to start, smoked and just didn't run right, The Timing was slow. We ended up taking all the shims out and sealed the pump to the block with anerobic sealer. Starts and runs perfect now. Shiburas's are good little engines. I rebuild one that had 15,000 hours on it, but they are not the easiest engine to work on. Listen to what Dieseltech tells you, go through the procedure again and you will figure it out. Good Luck.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Black smoke is incompletely burnt fuel . Too much fuel injected for the oxygen available.

Black smoke can occur while trying to start a Diesel engine under load.

If you have to raise the loader while cranking to relieve hydraulic pressure, you got problems somewhere else, I don't think there is anything wrong with the engine (or the old injection pump) at all, based on what you've stated so far.

would need to see your system before guessing anything more.

 

[wore out]

Black smoke is incompletely burnt fuel . Too much fuel injected for the oxygen available.

Black smoke can occur while trying to start a Diesel engine under load.

If you have to raise the loader while cranking to relieve hydraulic pressure, you got problems somewhere else, I don't think there is anything wrong with the engine (or the old injection pump) at all, based on what you've stated so far.

would need to see your system before guessing anything more.

''Black smoke can occur while trying to start a Diesel engine under load.''

I absolutely concur on that.

Seems STRANGE he needs to operate the loader valve to relieve pressure, Tractoradata confirms a 1310 has OPEN center hydraulics.

 

[mhb@ufe]

You need to find out what is causing the hydraulic system to build pressure while cranking the engine. One common problem that occurs with those tractors is the three point hitch control lever being pulled all the way up and the system goes into bypass. There is an adjustment to stop it from doing that.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

You need to find out what is causing the hydraulic system to build pressure while cranking the engine. One common problem that occurs with those tractors is the three point hitch control lever being pulled all the way up and the system goes into bypass. There is an adjustment to stop it from doing that.

HEY!!!! I had a customer 1220 doing that because the check chains were too short and getting tight before the hitch was all the way up. Always had to let the lever down a bit to stop it.

 

[Dieseltech]

''Black smoke can occur while trying to start a Diesel engine under load.''

I absolutely concur on that.

Seems STRANGE he needs to operate the loader valve to relieve pressure, Tractoradata confirms a 1310 has OPEN center hydraulics.

i wonder if the valve is going to neutral as it should. I had a customer with a Case 680 that would start and die right away, he blamed the injection pump so he pulled it. I found nothing wrong with the pump. He put it back on , same trouble. THEN he found one of the backhoe valves pulled back out of the neutral position by his grandkids that had played on the machine over the weekend, and that explained why engine would die soon as the hydraulic pump would start to build pressure, then stall the engine.

 

[MendoBob]

''Black smoke can occur while trying to start a Diesel engine under load.''

I absolutely concur on that.

Seems STRANGE he needs to operate the loader valve to relieve pressure, Tractoradata confirms a 1310 has OPEN center hydraulics.

Strange yes.... maybe the relief valve is gummed up, or hydraulic filter clogged?? I will investigate further

 

[MendoBob]

i wonder if the valve is going to neutral as it should. I had a customer with a Case 680 that would start and die right away, he blamed the injection pump so he pulled it. I found nothing wrong with the pump. He put it back on , same trouble. THEN he found one of the backhoe valves pulled back out of the neutral position by his grandkids that had played on the machine over the weekend, and that explained why engine would die soon as the hydraulic pump would start to build pressure, then stall the engine.

yes, seems something going on with the hydraulics, but I will need to put the injector pump back in order first, and also install a new water pump ;-)

 

[MendoBob]

You need to find out what is causing the hydraulic system to build pressure while cranking the engine. One common problem that occurs with those tractors is the three point hitch control lever being pulled all the way up and the system goes into bypass. There is an adjustment to stop it from doing that.

I don't think that is the case with this tractor as it has always been a hard start even with the 3-point in different positions, but I will check it out again as soon as I repair the 3-point adjuster lever that broke off last year ;-)

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Strange yes.... maybe the relief valve is gummed up, or hydraulic filter clogged?? I will investigate further

Just to help with the elimination process, the fact that you can crank the engine at all, and the fact that you can make it crank faster by operating a hydraulic function, means that the relief valve is functioning properly.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

yes, seems something going on with the hydraulics, but I will need to put the injector pump back in order first, and also install a new water pump ;-)

Raising the loader would INCREASE the load on the hydraulics.

 

[mhb@ufe]

I don't think that is the case with this tractor as it has always been a hard start even with the 3-point in different positions, but I will check it out again as soon as I repair the 3-point adjuster lever that broke off last year ;-)

If you are getting hydraulic back pressure when cranking the engine something in the hydraulic system is wrong. With all hydraulic valves in the neutral position oil should free flow from the pump to the sump.

 

[gray horse]

If you are getting hydraulic back pressure when cranking the engine something in the hydraulic system is wrong. With all hydraulic valves in the neutral position oil should free flow from the pump to the sump.

Having the same issue as Mando my guess is maybe a stuck exhaust valve