Ford 2n electrical issue

[Hutch75]

Ok I got a weird one . Tractor was running fine Then all of the sudden nothing . It won’t even try to crank . It’s like it’s completely dead . I tried to jump the tractor off with a set of cables the starter would spin but even spraying starter fluid in the carb nothing . So today I redid all the of the wiring with new wire . I tried to start it i, the starter turned over for a brief second then sparked and the negative terminal . I started checking things and I am showing 12v on the grounds . So some how the positive is getting feed to ground . I disconnected all the plugs on the spark plugs , disconnected the positive wire going to the resistor, disconnected the hot wire going to the coil . Is there something in the distributor the could send 13v to ground . I am at a loss . Any help would be greatly appreciate.

 

[Hutch75]

This is the wiring digram I used

 

[Jim.ME]

I took a quick look back and don't see electrical details. You are saying it is 12 volts, so it has had a conversion. 12 volt negative or positive ground? Does it have an alternator now? If so, what alternator is it?

You posted: "the starter turned over for a brief second then sparked and the negative terminal". Please complete the sentence.

What are you testing with? please explain how you are using it, that you say you are showing 12 volts on the grounds? With one lead of a voltmeter on ground, touching any power source with the other lead will show system voltage (+/-). Likewise, the lead of a test light on ground and the probe on a power source, the light will light.

 

[Hutch75]

Yes it had a 12v conversion done . Normal ground to ground . When the starter turned over for a brief second it sparked and the ground terminal at the battery . My testing method was with a fluke meter with the negative lead to ground terminal and the positive lead touching anything that should be ground . When I was doing that it was showing 12 volts . The alternator looks like a GM 1 wire

 

[Jim.ME]

"My testing method was with a fluke meter with the negative lead to ground terminal and the positive lead touching anything that should be ground ."

That means if you put the negative (black) lead of your Fluke on the negative (ground) terminal of the battery and touch the positive (red?) lead of the Fluke to the engine block you show 12 volts. Is that correct?

Is this test done with the battery cables hooked up? Is the key turned off?

What does it show if you unhook the wire from the alternator output terminal, then test?

You saying the negative terminal sparked, to me would indicate a problem with the negative cable, cable clamp, or battery terminal. Are the battery cable terminal ends crimped on, soldered/poured on, or the 2-bolt-clamp-on type.

 

[Hutch75]

"My testing method was with a fluke meter with the negative lead to ground terminal and the positive lead touching anything that should be ground ."

That means if you put the negative (black) lead of your Fluke on the negative (ground) terminal of the battery and touch the positive (red?) lead of the Fluke to the engine block you show 12 volts. Is that correct?

Is this test done with the battery cables hooked up? Is the key turned off?

What does it show if you unhook the wire from the alternator output terminal, then test?

You saying the negative terminal sparked, to me would indicate a problem with the negative cable, cable clamp, or battery terminal. Are the battery cable terminal ends crimped on, soldered/poured on, or the 2-bolt-clamp-on type.

Yes with the black lead on the negative terminal and I touch the red lead to the engine it shows 12v

The test is done with the battery installed .
I replaced all the wires with new ones . The battery cables are 1/0 pure copper with copper terminal crimped on . The battery terminal are the type with the two bolts in top and they are as tight as they can be .

When I disconnect the alternator single wire there is 12v on it .

All these test where done with the key off and out of the switch

 

[Jim.ME]

I expect 12-volts if testing between the battery negative terminal and the wire on the alternator output post.

Both battery cables connected?

When the wire is disconnected from the alternator, do you still get 12-volts when you test between the negative battery post and the engine block?

 

[Hutch75]

Yes with both cables connected
And I still have 12v touching the block with the positive lead to the block

 

[wore out]

Yes with the black lead on the negative terminal and I touch the red lead to the engine it shows 12v

The test is done with the battery installed .
I replaced all the wires with new ones . The battery cables are 1/0 pure copper with copper terminal crimped on . The battery terminal are the type with the two bolts in top and they are as tight as they can be .

When I disconnect the alternator single wire there is 12v on it .

All these test where done with the key off and out of the switch

Quite simply, one end or the other of your ground/negative cable isn't making contact, which would explain the spark at the battery post.

Put the (-) test probe directly on the (-) post itself and the (+) probe on the actual (-) battery cable end itself. Try to engage the starter, and read the voltage drop.

Thoroughly clean the post and cable end, put it back on the (-) post and clamp it in place.

More than likely that will put your electrical gremlins to rest.

If it DOESN'T, there's a poor connection at the other end, or the cable is defective. If the ground cable is attached to the battery box there could be a poor connection between the stamped steel battery box and the cast iron body of the tractor, but I'm betting cleaning up up the (-) battery post and the cable end is gonna fix this!

 

[Hutch75]

The battery , terminals and wire is all brand new just installed them today . So that’s not the issue . I did take a wire wheel to the ground location of the tractor and got it to shinny metal before bolting it down .

 

[Jim.ME]

wore out is right and telling you what I was trying to get you to see by doing the testing.

The fact that your Fluke shows 12-volts between the negative battery post and the engine block means that battery cable is not carrying current between the battery and ground. Electricity takes the path of least resistance. A good battery cable will have less resistance than your meter, your meter should show no voltage testing as you are. The spark at the negative terminal is another indication something is not right.

Also for it to show 12-volts, power needs to be trying to flow from the positive terminal. Since you say everything is turned off, and the alternator is unhooked, that indicates to me when you solve the battery cable/ground problem you will find you have a wire in the wrong place or a short somewhere. Electricity flows in a loop.

New does not mean things are correct and working properly.

 

[Jerry9N]

”Normal ground to ground“ tells us nothing. Normal when these tractors were built is positive ground. Your conversion could be either positive or negative ground, either can work, if done correctly. Your assumption that new wiring cannot be the issue hasn’t been proven yet. There is obviously something incorrect somewhere or you would not have a problem. The fellows trying to help you really know what they’re doing. Which battery cable did you connect to the shiny metal, positive or negative? Red or black?

 

[wore out]

.

 

[used red MN]

The battery , terminals and wire is all brand new just installed them today . So that’s not the issue . I did take a wire wheel to the ground location of the tractor and got it to shinny metal before bolting it down .

You say the terminals wires etc. are “brand new” that could very well be your problem, taking for granted that a new part has to be “flawless” not a motto to live by these days. Humor us a second if you are interested in having your tractor operational again. Disconnect your negative battery cable from the battery. Take one lead of a set of jumper cables and clamp one end on the battery post and the other to the bolt where you cleaned off the spot for the negative ground to bolt to. Start your tractor. If that doesn’t work show us a photo of the location you are bolting the negative cable to.

 

[Hutch75]

”Normal ground to ground“ tells us nothing. Normal when these tractors were built is positive ground. Your conversion could be either positive or negative ground, either can work, if done correctly. Your assumption that new wiring cannot be the issue hasn’t been proven yet. There is obviously something incorrect somewhere or you would not have a problem. The fellows trying to help you really know what they’re doing. Which battery cable did you connect to the shiny metal, positive or negative? Red or black?

I connect the black cable to the shiny metal

 

[Hutch75]

"So that’s not the issue"

You came here to what is likely the largest collection of knowledge about these tractors on the face of the earth and you are given advice, you chose not to follow it, and told us "So that’s not the issue".

It is IMPOSSIBLE and a waste of time to attempt to help guys like you!

GOOD LUCK, I'm DONE!

I don’t know what you mean by guys like me . I was not being a smart butt or anything . The battery was just purchased and charged over night . The post where cleaned before the terminals where installed . The inside of the terminal were also cleaned before installing them in the post . The cables that were used for the positive and negative cable was 1/0 oversized oxygen free copper wire . The ends of the wires use copper terminal crimped on with an hydraulic crimper . So I was Not trying to be a smart butt .

 

[Hutch75]

You say the terminals wires etc. are “brand new” that could very well be your problem, taking for granted that a new part has to be “flawless” not a motto to live by these days. Humor us a second if you are interested in having your tractor operational again. Disconnect your negative battery cable from the battery. Take one lead of a set of jumper cables and clamp one end on the battery post and the other to the bolt where you cleaned off the spot for the negative ground to bolt to. Start your tractor. If that doesn’t work show us a photo of the location you are bolting the negative cable to.

I tried the jumper cables the engine will spin but even spraying starter fluid in the carb it won’t start . I have fuel going to the carb it’s like it’s not getting spark

 

[Jim.ME]

I tried the jumper cables the engine will spin but even spraying starter fluid in the carb it won’t start . I have fuel going to the carb it’s like it’s not getting spark

I fully understand you have new parts you just installed. No one wants to think a new part is bad, or that they made some mistake. Unfortunately, the results of the testing you have posted here thus far indicates such is happening here. As much as you may hate the thought, these things must be checked, which is why we are giving you the suggestions we are.

First thing I say is the color of a battery cable means nothing to me; I am used to equipment that uses all black battery cables. I want to know exactly where both ends of a cable connect and refer to them as positive or negative/ground based on where they connect, not the color. You just rewired it. Did you choose to put a red cable on positive side (battery positive to starter switch, not start button) and black on the negative side (battery negative to chassis) for ground? Too many connection mistakes have been made when people only go by cable color when connecting to a battery.

Clamp-on type battery cable terminal ends are not great, best to get battery clamp ends crimped or soldered on. When you said you had a spark at the battery terminal it points to a problem around that area.

You say you cleaned it to bright metal but where is the chassis end of the negative/ground cable connected to the chassis?

I also think you may have positive power wire touching ground or broken insulation on a terminal somewhere to get a voltage reading with everything off or unhooked.

 

[used red MN]

I tried the jumper cables the engine will spin but even spraying starter fluid in the carb it won’t start . I have fuel going to the carb it’s like it’s not getting spark

Edit: Oops misunderstood what you said. It not that I want you to jump the tractor from another source. I want you to use one individual jumper cable to take the place of the negative cable after you disconnected it.
So hopefully this will show you there is a problem with your negative battery cable. Pull on the ends like you want to pull the head off of a snake you will probably find the problem with the cable. This should put your testing reactions back to normal. Now you have to check that you have power at the coil with the ignition on. If there is power check the spark.

 

[Lynn Patrick]

As Jim.ME said, "New does not mean things are correct and working properly."