Ford 2n no spark help

[stryped]

I have a 2n I use to bushhog a grass field. It has been runing fine for about 3 years. A few weeks ago I started having an intermittenant start problem. I replaced the points and condenser and now it will not start. The old coil was cracked I noticed so I put another coil on it I had. (I also tried a new coil which did not help either). I am pretty sure I put everythign together right, there is a picture in my manual I got from TSC. The gap is .015. (Slight drag with this feeler guage.) The problem is definitely no spark.



This is the front mount distributor with the square coil. I have contenuity with the top post of the coil and the curly spring on the bottom. I am getting 12 volts on the wire to the coil but noticed something. With the distributor on the engine, I have trouble getting any voltage when I check the top terminal of the coil. However, if I take the distributor off the engine, I get the 12 volts. I am assuming I am not getting the voltage when installed becasue the distributor is grounded to the engine. Does this sound right?

I took the distributor off and installed just the coil. I get continutity from the top post of the coil to anything including the points inside the distributor.(regardless if the points are open or closed). I get continuity from the top part of the cap where the other coil terminal rests to the rotor button on the cap. However, with the cap installed I do not get continuity touching that same spot where the other coil terminal rests on the cap to any of the spark plug outlets on the cap, even while spinning the distributor by hand. I assume this is ok becasue the rotor is not supposed to touch the actual cylinder terminals inside the cap.



After putting the new points and condenser on I jecked the static timing as is described in the manual with two rulers. (This is difficult to do by yourself). The best I could tell the tang on the bottom of the distributot is 1/4 inch away from the bolt hole as it should be.



My only guess is there is something drounded on the breaker plate that is not supposed to be or something??? I am not sure how to tell or what I need to look for.



As always I appreciate any help!

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" My only guess is there is something drounded on the breaker plate that is not supposed to be or something???"

Yep.

Before you check anything else, make sure you have the correct voltage at the top of the coil. It should be battery voltage w/ the points open & about half that w/ the points closed.

Next, make sure your battery is fully charged. Don't guess; put it on a charger.

You need a strong battery to:
1. Close the solenoid
2. Spin the starter
3. Engage the bendix
4. Provide voltage to the coil.
As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark. If the battery is almost totally dead, all you will hear is the solenoid clicking.

The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition.

Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok, & that you have correct voltage to the coil, the most common electrical failure (no spark, weak spark) points on the frontmount are:
The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it’s fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works)

The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark.

The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks)

The condenser wire grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.

The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.)

Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o’clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o’clock)

Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).

Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points.

Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap.

Unless the coil is cracked or shows a dead short, chances are it's fine; square coils rarely fail cold. Pull the distributor & do a continuity check.

First, make sure your meter/light works (don't ask....)

You can change points everyday & it will not fix bad bushings. If you are having trouble w/ points failure, check the shaft. If you detect movement, chances are it needs new bushings.

Inspect the points; if they are pitted or burned, replace them. Next, dress the points by running a piece of card stock or brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. Make sure the points align correctly. Proper alignment is also critical to longevity. Look at the points when they are closed; both sides should mate evenly. Then, check the gap at .015 on the high point of all 4 cam lobes.

Now, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. What ever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts) Then place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Then, hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush w/ the timing gear cover.

Finally, double check your firing order & plug wires. It’s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It’s very easy to cross 3 & 4.

Post back w/ results & any other questions.
75 Tips

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 08:08:01 08/05/13) I have a 2n I use to bushhog a grass field. It has been runing fine for about 3 years. A few weeks ago I started having an intermittenant start problem. I replaced the points and condenser and now it will not start. The old coil was cracked I noticed so I put another coil on it I had. (I also tried a new coil which did not help either). I am pretty sure I put everythign together right, there is a picture in my manual I got from TSC. The gap is .015. (Slight drag with this feeler guage.) The problem is definitely no spark.



This is the front mount distributor with the square coil. I have contenuity with the top post of the coil and the curly spring on the bottom. I am getting 12 volts on the wire to the coil but noticed something. With the distributor on the engine, I have trouble getting any voltage when I check the top terminal of the coil. However, if I take the distributor off the engine, I get the 12 volts. I am assuming I am not getting the voltage when installed becasue the distributor is grounded to the engine. Does this sound right?

I took the distributor off and installed just the coil. I get continutity from the top post of the coil to anything including the points inside the distributor.(regardless if the points are open or closed). I get continuity from the top part of the cap where the other coil terminal rests to the rotor button on the cap. However, with the cap installed I do not get continuity touching that same spot where the other coil terminal rests on the cap to any of the spark plug outlets on the cap, even while spinning the distributor by hand. I assume this is ok becasue the rotor is not supposed to touch the actual cylinder terminals inside the cap.



After putting the new points and condenser on I jecked the static timing as is described in the manual with two rulers. (This is difficult to do by yourself). The best I could tell the tang on the bottom of the distributot is 1/4 inch away from the bolt hole as it should be.



My only guess is there is something drounded on the breaker plate that is not supposed to be or something??? I am not sure how to tell or what I need to look for.



As always I appreciate any help!

I would say that you are correct in, "My only guess is there is something drounded on the breaker plate that is not supposed to be ...".
Likely spots: failed insulators "A" or "B", condenser terminal touching housing at "C", yellow copper strap touching structure.

 

[stryped]

I believe I am getting continuity everywhere. I dont quite understand where the insullation is I should be checking. I will say the condenser, rotor and points are new units from tsc. The copper strip came with the kit I believe and is not broken.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 08:38:07 08/05/13) I believe I am getting continuity everywhere. I dont quite understand where the insullation is I should be checking. I will say the condenser, rotor and points are new units from tsc. The copper strip came with the kit I believe and is not broken.

t A & B, take the screws out & move strap, points away from touching and make sure that you have NO connection/continuity between the threaded parts for the screws and the breaker plate. Insulators are just paper.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

I really don't how to explain this any better.......

"I believe I am getting continuity everywhere"

And that would be your problem.

" I dont quite understand where the insullation is"

Please re-read my previous post. The insulation is " under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches"

"I will say the condenser, rotor and points are new units from tsc."

If that's not the problem now, it will be very soon. Do net ever buy parts from TSC. Get them from this site or nnalert's.

"The copper strip came with the kit I believe and is not broken. "

No, it did not. It's permanently attached to the insulator & runs to the points. It did not come w/ the points.
75 Tips

 

[stryped]

Thanks for the help. Ot was the condenser grounding out.