Ford 3000 Gas 8 speed Live PTO clutch doesn't work

[vtford800]

Hi all, I have a 3000 gas 8 speed with a live (2 position clutch) PTO that doesn't work. Depressing the clutch pedal all the way doesn't allow the PTO lever to engage the clutch. Just grinds if you try.

I've adjusted the pedal per IT manual: Pedal pushrod link pin is in the rearmost (upper) hole. Pedal non-free play is 9-1/2" Pedal free play is 1-1/2" more.

I've tried one online suggestion of depressing the clutch fully and lowering an engaged running brush hog into some thick stuff to "break loose" the PTO. No go so far.

I have also watched the Gingel youtube video on replacing a standard looking two stage clutch and pressure plate combo.

I'm kind of confused about the PTO clutch as a result. Is the PTO just driven by the regular 11' transmission clutch plate or is it a separate clutch made up of a bunch of disks?

The IT manual shows a separate PTO clutch with disks, but the Gingel video seems to be saying that PTO clutching problems can be solved by replacing or adjusting the main transmission clutch.

On my tractor the main driving clutch seems to work fine. And the clutch point and pedal free travel seem normal.

So -- is it 2 clutches or one? And any suggestions?

 

[jchewie]

Single clutch assembly with two friction
surfaces, first to engage is the pto,
second is the transmission.

Adjust it in some more, I have to do the
same. Seems like free play has a
different feel than what I would have
expected.

 

[87nassaublue]

The one I used to work with had two clutch disks, one for the drive and one for the PTO. The PTO disk got stuck on that one and I could never break it loose. If you have an operator that doesn't push the clutch all the way in on a regular basis or it's out of adjustment and it doesn't get released very often, then it's likely to get stuck. I read an article where a shop would tie the pedal down and put a heater under the belly of the tractor over night to heat it up. The expansion from the heat would usually break the stuck clutch free. I haven't done it myself but that's another approach rather than splitting the tractor.

 

[vtford800]

Thanks for replying jchewie and 87 nassaublue.

I have tried it with all free pedal removed (just to test) and the pedal adjusted as far up as possible, so I could get maximum throw, and still no PTO clutch action.

I'm not opposed to splitting the tractor if I have to.

It seems like the answer is that yes there are two different sets of clutches on the live (2 position) version of the PTO. Both need to be working in order for the PTO to clutch properly.

If the main transmission clutch is worn or out of adjustment or the throwout needs work, then it's possible that there isn't enough movement to operate the PTO clutch.

But if the PTO clutch disks are stuck, and you can't free them by a couple of external tricks (like loading them or heating them per above), getting to them is a major operation, requiring full disassembly of the transmission, according to the IT manual.

Is that correct?

 

[sotxbill]

You dont "disassemble" the transmission, you disconnect it from the engine and slide it back out of the way so you can then remove the clutch pressure plate to get to the two discs...one is the trans and the other is the pto disc.

 

[vtford800]

(quoted from post at 14:37:45 05/19/21)
You dont "disassemble" the transmission, you disconnect it from the engine and slide it back out of the way so you can then remove the clutch pressure plate to get to the two discs...one is the trans and the other is the pto disc.

Thanks Bill, that's a relief to hear!

The IT manual was really confusing on this PTO clutch--- can you explain what are they talking about here?

276. PTO CLUTCH. To remove the PTO clutch assembly, the transmission input shaft must first be removed as outlined in paragraph 275

Then paragraph 275 says:

To remove the transmission input shaft it is necessary to remove the transmission from the tractor as outlined in paragraph 249. Then remove all transmission components as outlined in paragraphs 247 through 272......

The illustration shows lots of thin disks on the PTO shaft.

 

[vtford800]

Hmmm, maybe this is the wrong section of the manual..... and getting confused by the difference between "two position" PTO clutch and "two speed PTO clutch"

I have a single speed PTO clutch, but it is a two position (live) clutch. My transmission is an 8 speed, and my tractor is a 1967 (early) Model 3000.

I think the whole transmission disassembly thing is for access to a two speed PTO clutch, not the clutch on my tractor -- is that right?

 

[Sean in PA]

Sounds like you are looking at the section for the clutch pack removal for the Select-O-Speed transmission. That is on the inside of the front of the transmission. Your thread title says that you have an 8 speed. The dual clutch assembly for yours is inside the bell housing as sotxbill said.

Which manual are you referencing those paragraph numbers out of? They look like the paragraph numbers for the S-O-S trans PTO clutch in the I&T FO-30 manual. You want the manual clutch section starting with the tractor split instructions in paragraph 181. Once you get past the tractor split section, jump to paragraph 185, which is on how to R&R the double clutch.

 

[Sean in PA]

Sorry... typo, should have been I&T FO-31 manual.

 

[vtford800]

Spot on right, Sean (and Bill) I do have the 8 speed, and I was looking at the wrong paragraph of the F0-31 manual.

I really appreciate you giving me the right paragraph numbers, Sean. That makes it a LOT easier.

I am going to split the tractor and take a look at what's there. This will be the first time I've ever done that.

I've owned worked on and and used a JD Model M for 20 years, and a Ford 800 for about 6, but I've had the Ford 3000 for just a week. It's a newer and more complex piece of equipment, and the manual covers so many different models and variations and options it's a little hard for me to know which I'm looking at. I really do appreciate the guidance! Thanks Sean.

 

[Eman85]

If you'd like to practice before tackling yours I'll let you do mine. I have the same problem and need to split the tractor and fix the clutch.

 

[vtford800]

(quoted from post at 04:50:39 05/20/21) If you'd like to practice before tackling yours I'll let you do mine. I have the same problem and need to split the tractor and fix the clutch.

I don't think my arms are long enough to reach your tractor where you are Eman!

The Gingel 3000 clutch video on Youtube is a pretty good watch. Also, after that the Canadian Redneck 3000 clutch video also on Youtube.

That last one is very short and doesn't explain much, BUT it does show splitting without working in a concrete floor garage and without a hoist ("cherrypicker" Gingel calls it).

Instead, the Canadian Redneck crew working outside uses a wheeled floor jack and two long bolts to keep the two split halves connected and in-line, with enough space between to remove the clutch and pressure plate, and throw-out bearing.

That still requires a hard surface to wheel for the jack's tiny steel casters.

A commenter on that video suggested adapting larger heavy duty wheels to a jack or hoist for work on dirt or grass surfaces (they still have to be level and firm). Also suggested for a jack that a bolt on cage/retainer be welded up to bolt to the jack and bell housing if using a jack, so it can't slip. This all assumes that the long bolt guides are used.

I'm not going to comment on the safety of any of the above, just mentioning it as watched and read, not a suggestion to do.

I probably will do a combination of the above, I don't have a concrete floor garage. I do have a mobile hoist, and a new 8" dia by 2" 500 lb capacity fixed and castered wheel set I picked up at Runnings. I've done all of my JD M work outside over the years.

 

[Eman85]

Bring your tractor you can do mine first for practice. I do have a nice shop, concrete floor, good lighting, all the tools needed and plenty of fans, it's been hot here.

 

[RayJohnson]

30 years and I never been able to engage my pto on my 3000 with the motor running.. no big deal.

 

[Eman85]

OK, so I have 28 years to go before repairing it!

 

[vtford800]

Got it working!

I set the clutch travel for max height of pedal with almost no free play, then clamped the pedal down to the foot-board with a set of wide jaw welders vice-grip pliers for two days, sitting.

Then I opened up the small covered timing opening in the bottom right side of the bell-housing, and sprayed a full can of brake cleaner up into the flywheel area -- using the straw spray nozzle, angling it up and back.

The overflow dripped out the small drain hole at the bottom of the bell housing. I removed the vice grip pliers, started the engine and revved it up to full speed for a minute to splash around the brake cleaner, while pushing in and out on the clutch pedal. Then I shut her down, and re-clamped the clutch pedal down again.

Next morning I tried the PTO clutch, and it worked! I was able to shift in and out of PTO with the clutch pedal.

Well it's a biggie to me.....

 

[sotxbill]

great job... but remember,, even with the clutch working....

the pto can still grind when being turned on..... especially when the fluid it very cold...

But if it is working... drepressing the pedal to the running board,, should allow the shredder slowly coast down to a stop.... and that is success! And you can change gears with stopping the pto with a half push. great for heavy haying when your loaded down and need to drop a gear lower.


Remember that the clutch arm must have the pin in the higher of the two pedal positions for this to happen. And you put it in the lower position when your not using the pto... especially if your an older fellow with stiff knees. Not having to lift your leg so high is a plus.

 

[vtford800]

Thanks soxtbill! Yup the pin is presently in the upper hole. And also I'm also going to return to the proper pedal height and free play, now that I freed the PTO clutch -- I think that's 9 inches and 1-1/2 inches in the ITC manual.

I use the PTO for three things -- brush hog, 6" wood chipper, and once in awhile, fence post hole digger. But, the brush hog mostly.

I'll really appreciate that ability to change gears with the PTO continuing to run, particularly when mowing around trees and reversing. My JD Model M I've used the 20 years last wouldn't allow that.

I have an over-running dog adapter on the PTO for the Deere -- is that still advisable with the F 3000?