ford 3500 engine noise

[maxims45]

Hi there! Could the community please guide me in the right direction regarding what to explore?

1968 Ford 3500 with a 3-cylinder gas engine, 192 engine block, 4-speed transmission, 540 PTO. 6000 hours and was sitting in the field for two years.

A winter project in my garage, replaced oil 15w40, filters, oil pressure sensors, wiring, instruments / tach wire, fixed the electrics, VR, generator brushes, tires. Just going through.

The video of the engine noise is attached. The noise is coming from the top front of the engine, 2 minutes after a cold start at 800 - 1000 rpm. The oil pressure lamp lights up and goes away as expected at startup. At 1200 rpm, the noise is too loud to hear. Doesn't go away as the engine warms up. Not fan-to-shroud contact... Not sure if the clanking was there before the oil change, and it somewhat comes and goes.

Before opening it open, wanted to tap into others expertise on what to check! Thanks in advance!
[video play=false:babc83830e]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/videos/mvvideo112505.mp4[/video:babc83830e]

 

[Bern]

Try cranking the engine with the ignition off and see if you can still hear it. If you can, then it's not timing related,
pretty much has to be mechanical. Maybe drain the oil overnight and then stick a borescope in the drain plug hole and look for
shavings.

 

[maxims45]

Thank you! Yeah, I think I hear the same clunk when it is cranking with the distributor wire off.

Will stick the camera in it, that is a great idea!

 

[Robert (ID)]

Rocker arm?? does it go away when the clutch is pushed in? is oil pan been smashed in??? Ive heard that before.. but i cant remember where...
my 2000 had the oil pan smashed in to where it restricted oil flow at higher RPMS.. it had some funky noises.. my 4000 had the wrong head gasket in it and the pistons was clacking on it.. ive picked up some jobs with some interesting noises over the years.. KEEP US POSTED.

 

[Sean in PA]

A 3500 gas engine was originally a 158 ci engine. Was it replaced at some point with a 192? The 192 gas engine was only used in the 1/1/65-4/1/68 4000 series. According to my references, the only 192 ci engines used other than that were the 3610 and 3910 diesel engines. They never used a gas 192 engine after 4/1/68 as far as I can find.

 

[Eman85]

Take the fan belt off and try it.

 

[maxims45]

Thanks guys!

Same noise with the belt removed. Pressing clutch no difference.

Sean, my bad, I googled C5NN6015 from the block and it went to 192, but I think it is stock 158.

Oil pan looks alright!

Cyl 1 has scoring in it. Well, Toyota would be scared, not sure what these engines do. When I've got the tractor there was no air filter... Cyl 2 and 3 rusty. Pictures attached, sorry my camera is garbage.

I guess the manual calls for valves adjustment so I'll open the valve cover, check it out and adjust valves.

Will keep posting! Thanks again for the directions and input, much appreciated.

Below are the screenshots:

 

[Robert (ID)]

Should of asked before.. have ya run a compression on it??

 

[used red MN]

It looks to me like the flat areas that are the highest
points on the piston in your top photo are shined up
like it is kissing the head! Rod bearing or wrist pins
bushings are going out. Or the piston shirts are
collapsed badly or broke off cocking the piston so it hit
the head when it comes to the top.

 

[Bern]

I agree 100%, either a rod bearing or wrist pin bushing failure.

 

[maxims45]

Hey guys! Really appreciate the guidance and advices! A quick update.

It stopped running so had to go through carb cleaned, pump got stuck.

Adjusted the valves, lash clearance was pretty good in the first place maybe 1 or 2 off.

The compression on cold is ... 85 / 92 / 85. Thanks Robert, should of checked earlier.

The knock disappears when pulling off the plug wire on cyl #1, the shiny one from the pictures above. It sort of comes and goes after that. With stethoscope I think I narrowed down the sound is right from the wall of this cylinder.

So I am taking, it is probably open up and see what to rebuild.

 

[Sean in PA]

I assume that those are dry compression numbers. They should be higher than that on a wet test.

 

[maxims45]

Yes! Dry! And after pouring a bit of oil to cyl 1 it did not change really!

 

[Hobo,NC]

Hey guys! Really appreciate the guidance and advices! A quick update.

It stopped running so had to go through carb cleaned, pump got stuck.

Adjusted the valves, lash clearance was pretty good in the first place maybe 1 or 2 off.

The compression on cold is ... 85 / 92 / 85. Thanks Robert, should of checked earlier.

The knock disappears when pulling off the plug wire on cyl #1, the shiny one from the pictures above. It sort of comes and goes after that. With stethoscope I think I narrowed down the sound is right from the wall of this cylinder.

So I am taking, it is probably open up and see what to rebuild.

I think you know where you are headed you purity much nailed it with the plug wire trick. What scope are you using it sure does a good job.

 

[Destroked 450]

A 3500 gas engine was originally a 158 ci engine. Was it replaced at some point with a 192? The 192 gas engine was only used in the 1/1/65-4/1/68 4000 series. According to my references, the only 192 ci engines used other than that were the 3610 and 3910 diesel engines. They never used a gas 192 engine after 4/1/68 as far as I can find.

I know 4/1/68 was the changeover date but I guess they continued installing the older components until you used up the inventory
I had a 4/15/68 4000 gas with older vent hood sheet metal and 192 engine and a June 68 4000 gas with newer sheet metal and 192 gas engine
Still have both blocks

 

[Destroked 450]

Hey guys! Really appreciate the guidance and advices! A quick update.

It stopped running so had to go through carb cleaned, pump got stuck.

Adjusted the valves, lash clearance was pretty good in the first place maybe 1 or 2 off.

The compression on cold is ... 85 / 92 / 85. Thanks Robert, should of checked earlier.

The knock disappears when pulling off the plug wire on cyl #1, the shiny one from the pictures above. It sort of comes and goes after that. With stethoscope I think I narrowed down the sound is right from the wall of this cylinder.

So I am taking, it is probably open up and see what to rebuild.

Number one piston is hitting the head, time to pull the head and drop the oil pan so you can remove that piston and rod to see what the damage is
That model should have the cast oil pan, put a floor jack under it to remove it, that oil pan weighs over 50 lbs and probably closer to 75 lbs

 

[maxims45]

I think you know where you are headed you purity much nailed it with the plug wire trick. What scope are you using it sure does a good job.

Thanks guys! +destroked

On it! It is the industrial model with the heavy front axel overlapping the oil pan by 4-5 inch so slowly working through pulling the axel forward to take the pan down.

The scope is DEPSTECH 30 bucks of amazon.

 

[Destroked 450]

Thanks guys! +destroked

On it! It is the industrial model with the heavy front axel overlapping the oil pan by 4-5 inch so slowly working through pulling the axel forward to take the pan down.

The scope is DEPSTECH 30 bucks of amazon.

On my 4500 there were some thin washer type shims between the oil pan on front bolster to take up any loose space when everything is bolted together
Watch for them when you pull the bottom bolster bolts old and the bolster starts to separate from the pan

 

[SkipperII]

I don't mean to be a smart a--, but; If my eyes don't deceive me, those cylinder walls look the craters of the moon. I think you might be looking at a complete rebuild, especially with those compression numbers.

 

[maxims45]

The project is still going! The top is off! Piston 1 one has a vertical play, blah. So kissing the head was the right hypothesis. And yeah, going to drop the bottom next and keep going. Took forever to take the rear axel pin on the industrial.