Ford 4000-IT STARTED!!! Still will not move....

[Tayook]

Bled the fuel lines and with a bit of ether the old girl fired right up and stays running. Seems pretty smooth with little to no smoke. I am now convinced that the garage didn't even try to start it.

So that was the good news, bad news is it still will not budge. We messed with the traction disconnect still nothing. Pulled the cover off and slide the coupling over to make sure it was engaged, still no movement.

The PTO does spin.

There was absolutely no resistance in the clutch, goes right to the step when barely touched. The SOS will shift from top to bottom.

The engine does change a bit when the SOS is taken out of neutral. I can't explain it, but there is a difference in the sound.

Any insight would be great!!

 

[Larry NCKS]

The inching pedal only opens a hydraulic valve. The lack of resistance you feel in pushing it to the running board is normal.

If the PTO spins and the engine changes tunes when the transmission is shifted, the hydraulics of the transmission are working.

Are you absolutely sure that the traction coupling is coupled?

If so, try adjusting the bands per the Ford shop manual. Make absolutely sure the traction coupling is disengaged for this proceedure.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I didn't wish you luck in your last post but I'll send you some words of encouragement here.
You're on the right track and you're halfway there. These are great tractors and not so complicated that a guy can't figure them out.
Keep going and keep posting.
Jerry

 

[Tayook]

We didn't completely bolt the cover of the TD back on tonight so I will pull it off tomorrow and get some photos.

What do you mean by adjusting the bands?

Hope it isn't so complicated a girl can't figure it out either......

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 20:51:03 04/04/10) We didn't completely bolt the cover of the TD back on tonight so I will pull it off tomorrow and get some photos.

What do you mean by adjusting the bands?

Photos won't help you determine if you're really connected. Only visual inspection coupled with knowledge of whether or not the tractor will roll freely while the engine is not running will answer this question.

I don't remember if you have the Ford SOS shop manual supplement for this transmission or not. If not, you need to stop right here and get someone who has one and some SOS knowledge to look at your transmission. If you have one, the band adjustment proceedure is clearly defined. There are three bands and four clutches in this transmission. The bands require periodic adjustment per the maintenance schedule in your operator's manual.

 

[john_Bud]

(quoted from post at 18:51:03 04/04/10) We didn't completely bolt the cover of the TD back on tonight so I will pull it off tomorrow and get some photos.

Hope it isn't so complicated a girl can't figure it out either......

If the traction coupling is disconnected, with the engine off the tractor can be pushed and rolled by hand. Or pulled a (very) short distance by a car, to see if the rear tires are rotating.

If the coupling is connected, it won't roll with the engine off.

 

[Tayook]

It rolls with then engine off. The garage we took it to last used a wench to get it on the flatbed and then used a push bar to get it up on th our trailer when we picked it up and we rolled it off the trailer, so it has done a lot of rolling with the engine off.

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 08:06:18 04/05/10) It rolls with then engine off. The garage we took it to last used a wench to get it on the flatbed and then used a push bar to get it up on th our trailer when we picked it up and we rolled it off the trailer, so it has done a lot of rolling with the engine off.

Your TD is disconnected . . . or you've got worse problems. If the TD is connected, you will not be able to roll the tractor with the engine shut off unless something else is seriously wrong with the rear end or transmission output shaft.

 

[john_Bud]

Your TD is disconnected . . . or you've got worse problems. If the TD is connected, you will not be able to roll the tractor with the engine shut off unless something else is seriously wrong with the rear end or transmission output shaft.

Exactly.

I'd guess that the coupling is only just touching. Take off the round cover and by hand slide it so it is dis-connected. Then grip the splined shaft in the differential (back side one) and see if you can spin it. Hopefully, you can't. Then grip the coupling and try to rotate that. Again, hopefully, you can't. If either of them moved more than a small amount, you have probably got a broken shaft or similar issue to resolve.

A guess (hope!), is that the the shafts are ok but coupling was not engaged. The engagement mechanism could be bent and not allowing it to move properly. By hand (left hand), slide the coupling to the back. With your right hand, lift up or push down on the rear tire to slightly rotate the differential pinion gear (that splined shaft in the back). As it rotates, you will be able to slide the coupling back and get it to engage both shafts.

 

[Tayook]

You guys are awesome! Will let you know how we make out.

 

[bjr]

I know that the engine seems to make a different sound when moving the shift lever. I went thru what OP is going thru and it was still the torq clutch in the front of the transmission. It had sheared the rivets to the disc hub. There was no transmission pressures either. Had to split the tractor and replace the disc. bjr

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 11:57:04 04/05/10) I know that the engine seems to make a different sound when moving the shift lever. I went thru what OP is going thru and it was still the torq clutch in the front of the transmission. It had sheared the rivets to the disc hub. There was no transmission pressures either. Had to split the tractor and replace the disc. bjr

That wouldn't make the tractor rollable without the TD being disconnected.

 

[Tayook]

Okay....removed the cover of the TD and pushed the coupler toward the front of the tractor. Tried to spin the back spline, it moved form side to side very little. Tried to spin the coupling, didn't spin. Slide the coupler back over the rear spline and rocked the tractor, wheels moved and the whole shaft spun with the tires rolling.

Tried to push the coupler back further as the tires rolled, but couldn't get it back any further. There was a gap where I could still see the groves on the rear spline.

Thinking we are in over our heads....was hoping we could just get this engaged and our problems would be over...

 

[john_Bud]

You state you moved it back over the differential pinion gear stub. How far back? How do the splines on the stub look?

What happens when the ring & pinion wear is there is more front to back slop in the system. That can make the coupler slide to the front and then grind and mush the splines inside. That makes it HARD to engage.

Get a decent sized mirror and a super bright light so you can inspect the inside of the coupler for damage.

 

[Larry NCKS]

(reply to post at 21:23:56 04/05/10)

Your problems will likely be over if you can get the TD to connect. Perhaps a bar through the opening to exert a little more force while rocking, not rolling, the tractor? However, if your splines happen to be damaged severely, only a rear split and repair may suffice.

 

[Tayook]

I know you guys said a photo would not help much, but I think it will help me explain what is going on. When we pulled the cover off this is what we found. This got me very optimistic, no wonder the tractor would not move. So I slide the coupler back, thought to myself, it can't be that easy....and it wasn't.

The coupling will not slide all the way back. The red dotted line shows about how far back it will go. I tried using a small bar behind the coupling to pry it further back as the tires were being rocked, but it would budge.

 

[Larry NCKS]

Your picture did not come through on my system . . . and once again, I don't think it needs to for me to understand your problem. There's something wrong with your TD splines or pinion shaft splines if you cannot get the two to couple. Sometimes a little burr is all it takes.

 

[NWMO 901 SOS]

(quoted from post at 21:23:56 04/05/10) Okay....removed the cover of the TD and pushed the coupler toward the front of the tractor. Tried to spin the back spline, it moved form side to side very little. Tried to spin the coupling, didn't spin. [color=red:afa3d26c59]Slid[/color:afa3d26c59]e [color=red:afa3d26c59]the coupler back over the rear spline and rocked the tractor[/color:afa3d26c59], wheels moved [color=red:afa3d26c59]and the [/color:afa3d26c59][size=18:afa3d26c59][color=red:afa3d26c59]whole[/color:afa3d26c59][/size:afa3d26c59] [color=red:afa3d26c59]shaft spun with the tires rolling[/color:afa3d26c59].

Tried to push the coupler back further as the tires rolled, but couldn't get it back any further. There was a gap where I could still see the groves on the rear spline.

Thinking we are in over our heads....was hoping we could just get this engaged and our problems would be over...

Tayook,

Larry is the expert here. The way I read it, you got the TD coupler in place and when you rolled the tractor you spun the entire coupled shaft.

[size=18:afa3d26c59]IF [/size:afa3d26c59]that is the case, you have a failure in the transmission (output shaft stripped, clutch rivets broken, ???).

Chris

 

[john_Bud]

(quoted from post at 11:03:57 04/06/10)

Tayook,

Larry is the expert here. The way I read it, you got the TD coupler in place and when you rolled the tractor you spun the entire coupled shaft.

[size=18:1c5af99004]IF [/size:1c5af99004]that is the case, you have a failure in the transmission (output shaft stripped, clutch rivets broken, ???).

Chris

Yeah - agree, seeing the picture and the red dotted line, if the coupling is back that far, it's far enough.


Tayhook, You wrote with it connected, the whole coupled assembly will rotate when the rear tires are moved. If so, you do have more issues. Can you couple it and put your hand in the hole so you feel the output shaft from the transmission and the coupler, then rotate the rear tire to get the coupled assembly to rotate ? That will tell you if the front 1/2 of the coupler is in good order and not stripped out. (I'm assuming that the splines on the coupler back 1/2 have been looked at and are ok. )

I don't think that the Torque Limiting Clutch failing will allow the output shaft to spin freely. (I'm NOT the SOS pro on the board!!) If it is coupled and the output shaft is able to rotate, then the bands are released (as far as I understand it). If that's correct, it may be a band adjustment is all that is needed. Or it can be a major rebuild! I eagerly await a pronouncement from the real SOS experts on this !

jb

 

[Tayook]

Hope the video works.



This is what I mean when I say the whole thing spins when the tractor is rocked. As far as I can tell the splines are in good shape and I can not see any wear or damage to anything.

Thanks again for everyones wealth of knowledge!!

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 13:40:00 04/06/10)

(quoted from post at 11:03:57 04/06/10)

Tayook,

Larry is the expert here. The way I read it, you got the TD coupler in place and when you rolled the tractor you spun the entire coupled shaft.

[size=18:f1094b5f94]IF [/size:f1094b5f94]that is the case, you have a failure in the transmission (output shaft stripped, clutch rivets broken, ???).

Chris

Yeah - agree, seeing the picture and the red dotted line, if the coupling is back that far, it's far enough.


Tayhook, You wrote with it connected, the whole coupled assembly will rotate when the rear tires are moved. If so, you do have more issues. Can you couple it and put your hand in the hole so you feel the output shaft from the transmission and the coupler, then rotate the rear tire to get the coupled assembly to rotate ? That will tell you if the front 1/2 of the coupler is in good order and not stripped out. (I'm assuming that the splines on the coupler back 1/2 have been looked at and are ok. )

I don't think that the Torque Limiting Clutch failing will allow the output shaft to spin freely. (I'm NOT the SOS pro on the board!!) If it is coupled and the output shaft is able to rotate, then the bands are released (as far as I understand it). If that's correct, it may be a band adjustment is all that is needed. Or it can be a major rebuild! I eagerly await a pronouncement from the real SOS experts on this !

jb

If you guys are correct, that she's saying the coupler is rotating as is the transmission output shaft, then John is correct. The most likely culprit is band 2 or 3 or both. There can be other problems as well.

Given the history of the tractor, it makes me wonder if the uncle knew just enough about it to make him dangerous and backed off the bands to get it to move with a dead engine.

The torque clutch likely isn't bad because the PTO spins and shifting the transmission make the engine change tones. Even if it were, it would not let the tailshaft spin with the engine off. In effect, a bad TLC should show the same symptoms at the rear wheels as a dead engine does,

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 20:31:04 04/06/10) Hope the video works.



This is what I mean when I say the whole thing spins when the tractor is rocked. As far as I can tell the splines are in good shape and I can not see any wear or damage to anything.

Thanks again for everyones wealth of knowledge!!

I can see the picture on this one, but could not get video to work. Can any of the rest of you.

 

[NWMO 901 SOS]

I'm on dial up at home, best I could do was get some audio.

Chris

 

[john_Bud]

(quoted from post at 19:19:53 04/06/10)
I'm on dial up at home, best I could do was get some audio.

Chris

The video (good job there Tayook!) shows the coupled shafts turning about 1 spline's width as the tractor is rocked. It sort of looked like it was just taking up slack.


Q: Can the tractor be rolled with the coupler in place?

 

[Tayook]

Q: Can the tractor be rolled with the coupler in place?[/quote]

Yes, it will roll and the coupler will spin completely around as it rolls. We only rocked it because I couldn't figure out how to get in place to take the video as the tractor was rolling: )

In talking with another uncle who has a Ford Ferguson, not sure what variant/model, he said he had a manual detailing how to adjust bands on that one. Is this something that is universal?

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 05:56:16 04/07/10)
In talking with another uncle who has a Ford Ferguson, not sure what variant/model, he said he had a manual detailing how to adjust bands on that one. Is this something that is universal?

No ma'am. It is not!!!!!!!!!!!

First there was no Ford Ferguson I know of that had bands.

The early Select-O-Speed in the 01 series Ford had its adjustmrnt specs and proceedure, your 4 cylinder 000 series had its, and the later 000 series had its.

Here is the manual you need on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/FORD-Tractor-Tr...ItemQQptZBI_Books_Manuals?hash=item35a3b0578f

 

[Tayook]

You are awesome! Sucks because the shipping says 3-10 business days and I am a very impatient person: ) It is coming from Georgia....