ford 4500 backhoe

[larry zielkowski]

yesterday my backhoe's clutch went bad. Today I tried to adjust the free play and am convinced the problem is inside of the tractor. and it will have to be split to work on the clutch.
my problem is that I have never done this scope of work and will have to do it on the top of my property in a grass field.
I understand that there would be some rigging involved and i would prefer at first thought to use lower rigging jacks and stands.
I am more than willing to try this probably in the spring but was looking for some advice as to how to proceed thanks Larry

 

[Steve@Advance]

Don't want to be discouraging anyone willing to do their own work, but what you
are contemplating is going to have the potential of serious injury and damage to
the tractor.

If there is a loader, will need to be removed.

You really need to find a way to get it on a good flat concrete slab. Two
reasons, safety, it needs a solid surface to crib up the back half. The front
half needs a flat, smooth surface to support and roll it away from the back.

But here's the hard part, remating the engine back to the bell housing. It needs
to be done in a controlled fashion, everything must be held straight while the
input shaft is splined back into the clutch disc. You do not want the weight of
the engine hanging by the shaft, it has to be held straight so everything goes
together without excess force. A daunting task under the best of conditions!

It will be well worth the effort to get it to a proper facility, and have some
help lined up, for safety sake if nothing else!

 

[larry zielkowski]

Thanks Steve appreciate the reply. I posted because I was unsure of just how hard it would be to re-mate the 2 halves. i have put new clutches in cars and motorcycles a simpler job and a long time ago.
It seemed like it might be easier to bring the tools to the tractor then to try to move the tractor to the tools but I guess not also thought about laying in some gravel to make a level spot. I do have a cement slab in front of the house but it is used by the family to park their cars and if this took more than a day or two I would never hear the end of it .
I don't have any idea where to start to find a shop that might do this kind of work or any idea of the cost but i guess I will look into it. thanks again

 

[TomD62]

Larry,
If you are mechanically inclined, have a garage or concrete pad, and are not in a rush, you can do this! I split my machine by myself, but have the luxury of a heated garage. Search for advice on the forums, and there is a section in the Ford manual about splitting a machine.
Rule #1 - wedge the front axle on both sides so once you roll the engine / front wheels from the supported rear section the engine doesn't tip to one side.
I took the backhoe and front loader off before I towed up to my garage. Once you get the machine apart you can order the correct clutch kit, and you might as well replace the engine rear main seal while you are there. And any freeze plugs that don't look pristine.
Lining up the clutch input shaft was not a problem at all. The clutch kit comes with an alignment tool. I just rolled the front section of the tractor using a heavy duty floor jack and raised / lowered as needed during reassembly.

Good luck!

 

[larry zielkowski]

(quoted from post at 02:34:40 11/27/21) Larry,
If you are mechanically inclined, have a garage or concrete pad, and are not in a rush, you can do this! I split my machine by myself, but have the luxury of a heated garage. Search for advice on the forums, and there is a section in the Ford manual about splitting a machine.
Rule #1 - wedge the front axle on both sides so once you roll the engine / front wheels from the supported rear section the engine doesn't tip to one side.
I took the backhoe and front loader off before I towed up to my garage. Once you get the machine apart you can order the correct clutch kit, and you might as well replace the engine rear main seal while you are there. And any freeze plugs that don't look pristine.
Lining up the clutch input shaft was not a problem at all. The clutch kit comes with an alignment tool. I just rolled the front section of the tractor using a heavy duty floor jack and raised / lowered as needed during reassembly.

Good luck!

thanks for the info I find it encouraging and am planning to do this in the spring since I don't have a heated garage available. I have watched a lot of youtube videos. just wondering how long it took you start to finish ?

 

[TomD62]

Truth be told I took my time. I did not purchase the clutch kit until I split the machine to see what I had. I also replaced the rear main seal on the crank. The flywheel was sent out to be resurfaced as well.

I needed to clean out the inside of the transmission bell housing as it was full of nesting material and acorns due to the inspection hole / timing mark cover being AWOL. I spent extra time as the fuel tank was removed due to it leaking at the bottom seam. Probably 4 hours to remove stuff and separate, the time needed to install flywheel and clutch kit, and a few more hours to assemble.

That was last winter. I was occupied doing other projects this Summer (building a wood fired sauna,...) and have just started working on it again. It is not my primary machine; I have a CAT 420 EIT for digging and a JD 3520 for implements (logging winch, chipper,...) but would like to have this ready for next Spring.

[/img:fa9978bcb4]

 

[larry zielkowski]

Hey Tom; thanks for the reply and the pictures. Don't know if I will ever get to it but I am hoping for the spring time. I could take it to my friends garage he has a better situation as far as a concrete pad goes transporting would be the hardest problem. How hard is it to remove the backhoe ? The loader looks much easier. I have been researching the job from a lot of different sources. where did you buy the clutch from I found a place on youtube that seemed to have a good assortment of clutches and a video to go with them. they used a cherry picker to separate the sections. I remember seeing something about replacing the seal while i have it open. lots to think about but i have a few months to plan just now I am still prepping for winter

 

[TomD62]

The backhoe is easier to remove than the loader. The backhoe has two large nuts and three hydraulic hoses. Loosen the two nuts, lower the stabilizers, remove the two nuts completely and use the stabilizers to lift the backhoe out of the mounts, place some cribbing under the hoe, then disconnect the three hydraulic lines. Two of the lines will need to be connected together, and the third metal line blocked off. There should be a metal cap screwed onto the hoe attachment to use as a blank when the hoe is removed.

The front loader was more of a PITA to remove, but it can be done.

 

[TomD62]

Purchased the clutch kit from Yesterdays Tractor.

 

[larry zielkowski]

(quoted from post at 22:13:17 11/30/21) Purchased the clutch kit from Yesterdays Tractor.

Thanks again Tom appreciate the info didn't realize that it was so simple to remove the backhoe the hydraulics seemed the most complicated. I am really getting hyped up to doing this thanks

 

[Destroked 450]

Did you get the correct single disc 13 inch clutch with 15 splines

 

[TomD62]

I did get a 13 inch disk with 15 spline. It is a continuous disk and not the 'button' type.

 

[larry zielkowski]

Hey Tom just wanted to let you know that I looked at the tractor today. I wanted to see the backhoe and how to remove it and I was happy to see how easy it would be. the other news is while I was there I started it up and put air in the tires played around with the brakes which I got unstuck moved the tractor pushing with the loader heard a click and the clutch was still spongy but i was able to get it in gear and move it to a better location I think I still have to put in a new clutch but this gave me a lot of new options to go about it. what a great day thanks for all of the advise

 

[TomD62]

Great news Larry! When I got my machine the clutch was stuck as well. I tried a bunch of things to try to get it loose but to no avail. When I split the machine I found out why!

You just have better luck than I do. But that being said, I did get my machine for free so I really can't complain.

 

[larry zielkowski]

(quoted from post at 02:10:53 12/04/21) Great news Larry! When I got my machine the clutch was stuck as well. I tried a bunch of things to try to get it loose but to no avail. When I split the machine I found out why!

You just have better luck than I do. But that being said, I did get my machine for free so I really can't complain.

any opinion as to how long my clutch might last might last ?

 

[TomD62]

That would be difficult, if not impossible, to know. The more you drive it will help you determine that. It may operate better over time, or stay marginal.

 

[larry zielkowski]

used it Sunday to put the snow plow on my dump truck , running great I am going to try to move it more often, I think that the clutch seized up from lack of use. How is your tractor doing ,have you been using it ? my next question is how does it handle with the
backhoe off of it ? mine feels kind of clumsy on my property and I was going to try running it without the backhoe

 

[TomD62]

Glad to hear the clutch is free. Hopefully it stays that way!

My machine has been parked since I got it as I have a couple of others. It was a Craigslist special: FREE. The guy wanted it out of his yard as all his projects were done. He attempted to sell it on CL but was sick of people beating him up over the price. When I got the machine the clutch was inoperable and the tires are dry rotted but hold air. The best part was it was in the next town over, so the trucking charge to get it home was reasonable.

It ran fine when I parked it, but 2 years later when I tried again it was a no go. The carburetor was full of white powder and could not be rebuilt. After a new $500 carb machine ran great and was headed for my garage as a winter project. While disassembling to split the machine, more issue such as radiator and fuel tank leaks were found. New parts were purchased and the winter project is turning into two winters as summertime is for outdoor projects.

From what I am told the machine does not operate well without the backhoe as a counter weight. Even with loaded tires and wheel weights the front is too heavy, especially if you have hilly terrain such as I do. Mine has a three point hitch and PTO, so a concrete weight could be attached as well. I have contemplated getting a log grapple for the three point hitch, but I may just leave the backhoe on and use it for trenching as I found a 12 inch bucket for it.

 

[larry zielkowski]

Nice find Tom I bought mine ,but I didn't pay to much I got 3 4500 fords 2 diesels and one gas all need constant attention fix one thing another goes but I get some use out of them.
the gas one took me all summer to change the spark plugs, came like that they were all broken and stuck but i got them out mostly small pieces then had some trouble finding plugs for it. got it running but now when it warms up it loses power haven't had a chance to get a look at it I hope its not the carb. all of them have the mounting for backhoes but only the one has it it's a diesel . the other diesel has a weight box and handles pretty well but its a different frame than the other. the gas one has the mount for a back hoe but nothing is there and it handles crappy anyhow they are all a work in progress and I enjoy tinkering with them