Ford 535? identification

[kinsar]

I have a tractor that I just purchased a few weeks ago. Supposedly it is a 535 industrial tractor. I purchased the manuals for it and some stuff matches up and some does not. I have the serial# and I believe the model number from the bell housing.
Is there anyone that can help me identify it with the numbers?

OAO9
*C257625*

someone put new 535A stickers on it, but the front shroud around the radiator and air filter housing shows 4400 under the paint job.

I am pretty sure it is an industrial tractor and a lot of things match the 535 manuals, but some don't IE... the manual claims the engine oi filter is a spin on, but mine has a very large filter housing behind the alternator with a cartridge, not a spin on. The manual says the oil filler port is to the rear of the filter, but my filler tube is on top of the valve cover.
My manuals say the transmission and rear axle should have dipsticks on the cover plates to check oil levels. It does not (it only has the level holes on the sides of the cases)...etc.. just things like that that are not matching up and I need to order some parts.

Thanks in advance for any help. I can take pictures if need be and post them.

 

[Sean in PA]

C257625 looks like a very early 1970 serial number, and 0A09 looks like a production code of January 9, 1970, which agrees with the serial number.

There should be a third number on the bell housing where you found the other 2, and that one should be the model number. You can also try looking on the under side of the right hood panel to see if the original foil sticker is still there and still readable, as it will have the same 3 numbers plus some additional numbers that would tell you when the engine, transmission, hydraulic pump, hydraulic lift and rear axle were assembled.

The 535 was made from 1975-1978, so I don't think that is what you have. A 535 model number would start with either DD1 or DD2.

A 4400 is the right vintage, being made from 1965-1975. If it is a 1970 4400, then the model number would start with D40.

 

[kinsar]

Thanks Sean,

Ther are only 2 numbers on the flat spot on the bell housing and no ID plate under the hood.

I'll post a buch of pics of the tractor and numbers. I'll label the pics also, so you know where I took them on the tractor.
I appreciate the help in identifying this.

Front end

Engine oil filter

Bell housing numbers (only two)

Number on side of engine

Numbers on side of rear axle

Numbers on rear axle top plate under seat.

Numbers on side of transmission.

 

[Sean in PA]

Well that 0A09 in that picture looks like there's another character fter the 9 that's hidden by the hose in htat picture, and I'm betting that it's really 0A09B, which would definitely make it a production code of January 9, 1970 during the day shift.

The third number is probably going to be further in toward the center line of the tractor from those 23, not on the polished part of the flat spot but up on the rougher portion, covered by the rough looking paint. You'll probably have to scrape that rough looking paint away to see that other number.

From your pictures, it looks like it was most probably a January 1970 4400 to begin with.

1. It's got the old style power steering pump, tith the separate reservoir, which should was switched out to eh later style pump with the integrated reservoir on the 4400 on 5/1/70.

2. It's got the 1965-1975 style tachometer with the "0" rpms on the upper right and it moves clockwise at the rpms go up. All models made after 1975, like the 535, would have the "0" rpms at the upper left and go counter clockwise as the rpms go up.

3. It has a generator. Only 1965-1975 3 cylinder tractors had generators. In 1975 they switched to an alternator.

4. it has the cartridge style oil filter which was switched to the spin-on style a in 11/69, so the engine may have been assembled earlier than that, but the tractor was assembled in January of 1970, or the engine may have been replaced with an earlier one at some point.

That air filter doesn't look right though. It's a dry cartridge style filter up in the nose like a post-1975 tractor would have, but the opening in the nose in on the left side instead of the right. I don't know what;'s up with that.

It may have been cobbled together with pieces from multiple tractors though, and remember, the model number is stamped into the transmission, so that only tells you what model tractor that transmission was attached to wwhen it left the factory, but given that so many pieces on that one are definitely pre-1975, I would bet that the transmission is probably original to most of the rest of the tractor, and other little things like the air filter are not original to the that tractor.

 

[Fordfarmer]

The genny with tach drive, early style p/s pump with remote reservoir, canister oil filter, and straight up (as opposed to curving foreward and then up, farthter away from the operator) exhaust all point to a "75 or older machine. My guess would be a 4400.

 

[Sean in PA]

I guess I spoke too soon on that air filer setup. I've found a few pictures on Google Images of 4400's with the same setup with a dry cartridge up in the nose with the opening on the left side like yours.

Every '65-'75 tractor that I had seen in the past had the filter cartridge on the left side, but it was always back on the left side hood panel, just toward the rear from the vertical exhaust pipe, and they were all gas engines. It looks ike yours is a diesel, and my parts book does show that style of dry air filter for diesel 4400's. So maybe yours is a pretty much all original 4400 made on 1/9/70. You learn something new every day.

 

[kinsar]

Sean, mine is a diesel and you two gentelmen hit it right on the head, it's a 4400. I found the Model number where you said it would be (see attached pic) D4011K.

 

[kinsar]

I do have a couple of quick questions, if anyone knows the answers.

I have noticed (in searching for the engine oil filter) that there is an aftermarket adapter for a spin on filter. Is this a better way to go than the cartridge type filter (ie.. cheaper, readily available filters, or just a preference).

second question is about the hydraulics. When I 1st purchased the tractor, the hydraulics (bucket and backhoe) were fast but jerky. I replaced the utf in the rear axle, which is also the hydraulic reservoir. Ran it, entended the cylinders and then topped it off, to the level hole. At 1st the hydraulics whinned a bit, but that has calmed down. I'm assuming the pump purged the system. But now the hydraulics are much smoother, but also much slower and have a slight delay at the onset of the levers. Is this normal after a fluid change? I rechecked the level and it is fine and the power seems to be ok.

Last question,
Are the 4400 and the 535 very similar?
The reason I ask is this, I already have the manuals for the 535 (thanks seller, for identifying it as the wrong model) and in the manuals a lot of it looks just like this tractor. Also, I had to replace the brake rod seals that were leaking and ordered ones for the 535 (which fit perfectly and are doing fine). So, will the 535 manuals serve me pretty well for the 4400, or should I deffinitely order new manuals?

 

[Sean in PA]

D4011K should be a 4400 with a diesel engine, non-live PTO and a 6x4 manual reversing transmission.

As to the oil filter type, some folks love the cartridge type, and others can't stand them, while most folks agree that the spin-on is more convenient. I would say that it's a personal preference thing.

Simply working all of the cylinders in and out on the hydraulics should have purged all of the air that might have gotten in from when you drained the system. How was the level and quality of the old fluid in the rear end when you drained it? Was it a heavier oil than the UTF you replaced it with? It might be that the previous owner used a heavier oil than he should have because he didn't know any better, or because he was trying to mask a symptom.

The 535 was actually the replacement for the 4500, which was the true Industrial model of the '65-'75 4000 series. The 4400 was classified by Ford as a "Utility" chassis tractor, not an Industrial, and most had loaders from the factory, but most did not have backhoes. Your backhoe could be original, or it could have been added later. The 535 manual should do fine for a lot of things, like the rear axle and transmission, but the front axle and steering are different, and the hydraulics system on a 535 has the reservoir up in the nose cone of the tractor like the 4500 did, not in the rear axle like the 4400. A few more things are going to be different. There were major changes to the electrical system from the '65-'75 tractors to the post-'75 tractors like the 535 as well. They switched from a generator and external voltage regulator to an alternator with an internal voltage regulator, so a lot of the electrical troubleshooting would be different. Not to mention the switch from the generator driven tach cable for the clockwise tach on the earlier models to the oil pump driven tach cable and counter-clockwise tach on the later ones. If it were me, I would get the proper manual for the tractor so you're not always second guessing things.

 

[kinsar]

The old oil was fine. It seemed to be of the same viscosity as the UTF (as far as I could tell) maybe a bit thicker, probably from age/use. It was darker but not burnt or black, more like old UTF (light beige-ish, lightly opaque) definitely not gear oil. it appeared to have just a little bit of moisture in it, but it was not foamy in any way, just a small streak or two.

The level was fine until a bunch of it leaked past one of the brake rod seals, so I replaced both of the seals and the old UTF at the same time.

 

[techinny]

The loader subframe should be the reservior for the loader hydraulics, on the left hand upright there is a breather, unscrew the plug the breather is on. There may or may not be a dipstick on the bottom of it, if there is not, the oil level should be 6 to 9 inches from the top with the loader down and the bucket curled back.

 

[kinsar]

(quoted from post at 19:50:17 03/27/13) The loader subframe should be the reservior for the loader hydraulics, on the left hand upright there is a breather, unscrew the plug the breather is on. There may or may not be a dipstick on the bottom of it, if there is not, the oil level should be 6 to 9 inches from the top with the loader down and the bucket curled back.

Techinny,
I just went out and checked. You are absolutely correct. There is no dipstick and it is getting dark here right now, but I looked in with a flashlight and it appears to be low (maybe 12" or more?).

This brings me to some questions. The hose comes out of the subframe reservoir, goes to the hydraulic pump on the very front of the tractor, comes out of the pump, around the other side of the tractor to the other upright, then splits off and goes to the controls for the loader and a big line goes back to the backhoe, and a return line comes back from the backhoe to the right upright again.

My questions are.

Does the subframe serve as the reservoir for all of the hydraulics on the tractor (bucket and backhoe), and the UTF in the rear axle is just for the axle and wet brakes?

Where is the plug to drain the subframe reservior, so I can put in new/clean fluid (UTF I suspect) and is there a filter that needs replacing with this? And how much fluid does it require?

Lastly:
Is the subframe reservoir supposed to supply the backhoe or is this something done by a previous owner (It looks factory, not slapped together)?

 

[Sean in PA]

Besides lubricating the rear axle and cooling the wet brakes, the fluid in the rear axle is also used for hydraulic fluid to power the 3 point lift if the tractor has one. I totally missed the fact the the loader and backhoe reservoir would be in the loader frame since you have the front pump.

The loader should be either a model 730 or 735

The filter should be inside the loader frame. On the bottom of the left side, directly under the upright part of the frame there should be a bolt holding a plate. The plate has the filter mounted on the top side of it and it sticks up inside the loader frame. I'm not sure, but I think the only way to drain it is to pull that plate, as I don't see a separate drain plug anywhere in the parts drawings.

 

[kinsar]

(quoted from post at 14:51:09 03/28/13) Besides lubricating the rear axle and cooling the wet brakes, the fluid in the rear axle is also used for hydraulic fluid to power the 3 point lift if the tractor has one. I totally missed the fact the the loader and backhoe reservoir would be in the loader frame since you have the front pump.

The loader should be either a model 730 or 735

The filter should be inside the loader frame. On the bottom of the left side, directly under the upright part of the frame there should be a bolt holding a plate. The plate has the filter mounted on the top side of it and it sticks up inside the loader frame. I'm not sure, but I think the only way to drain it is to pull that plate, as I don't see a separate drain plug anywhere in the parts drawings.

Sean,
Once again, thanks for the info. I downloaded the 4400 manuals today, but I noticed that the manuals for the loader and backhoe a seperate. Are there identification numbers on these so I can make sure to get the right manuals for them?

 

[techinny]

Yes, the subframe supplies the loader and the backhoe, Sean's info on the filter is correct, but there MAY be a pipe plug on the bottom of the plate the filter is on, (bottom of LH upright). The ID tags for the loader and backhoe are seperate, the loader ID tag should be on the inside of one of the loader arms, held on by 4 rivets. The backhoe tag is on the frame between the back of the tractor and the stabilizer mount, held on by 4 rivets, I do not remember which side it is on.