Ford 5610 forward/ reverse shifting problemt

[John Fila]

My local dealer just returned my tractor with a new $3000+ clutch put in, at his suggestion, to fix exactly the problem I am describing here.
Tractor is a Ford 5610 4WD synchromesh, four speed(8 speed with hi/lo), with a separate lever to shift from between forward Hi,forward LO and reverse. After it warms up, and only after it warms up to operating temp, about half the time, I can't shift from forward to reverse or reverse to forward. If I take my main shift(1,2,3,4) out of gear and into neutral I can sometimes shift the F/R easier as I put pressure on the F/R lever. Sometimes I have to let the clutch out a bit and put it back in(disengaged). When I do this, and press the lever into F or R, a mismatch/grinding is felt through the shift lever and the tractor move a bit, or lurches, as things seem to fully engage. If I do the F/R shift while the tractor is still slightly moving it works better. Using one or more of these methods does eventually work.
It seems to me, a guy with about 2 hours of internet training under his belt, the problem is in the synchromesh. Some gears don't seem to be aligning. On the other hand the idea that the tractor lurches even when the clutch is disengaged tells me its somewhere in the clutch mechanism.
Incidentally, I have never had any problems with the 1,2,3,4 shifting, or any of the more normal indications that the clutch was bad or going bad. And I have adjusted the clutch linkage to its prober place and gone well beyond factory specs in either direction with no affect.
I know one of you smart guys has the answer and I'd sure like you to share it with me. I'd love to show it to the dealer when I try to get him to do the right fix for little or no additional money.
BTW when in the shop the tractor was completely serviced and all the shift linkage points are properly lubed.

 

[RodinNS]

The Forward/reverse/range lever is not syncronized, so that shift will always grind to some extent. You can either come to a dead stop before shifting it, or you can pull the main lever to neutral, shift, and then put the main lever back in gear. That is a rather high inertia transmission so the shafts don't stop spinning very quickly if you let the clutch out in neutral either.
I find that I can shift ranges on the move cleanly by pulling the main lever out, pulling the range lever out, moving the main lever across it's gate, shifting the range lever, and then shifting the main lever to the next gear. Clear as mud? It wasn't the cleanest shifting transmission in the world.

What I would suspect may be the problem with yours is the clutch linkage. Inspect that carefully for wear on the pins and clevises. Build them back up to 'tight' or replace them. Price them first, and then you'll build them up....
Other than that there could be a poor pilot bearing that's dragging if they didn't replace that on the clutch job (which I highly doubt as they WOULD replace the pilot bearing as a matter of course), or the clutch disc could be binding on the input shaft spline enough that it's carrying some power from the flywheel.... or it could be a combination of several of those factors and a somewhat normal condition for that transmission.
Probably not what you wanted to hear, but...

Rod

 

[RickB]

I believe I looked at this tractor and discussed the situation with John after the clutch job. I had not met John prior to that, nor did I do the clutch R&R or see the tractor while it was in the shop. The range side of this transmission has the feel of a synchronized gearbox although the parts breakdown only indicates two synchronizers in the speed portion of the transmission. The difficult shifting is not the result of gear teeth rolling past each other and grinding, but a failure to align and engage while stopped. It feels exactly as if one is fighting a synchronizer. I have no reason to think the clutch is not completely disengaging in a normal manner. The range lever shifts smoothly with the tractor rolling even the slightest bit, or with the 1-4 lever in neutral but is quite stubborn or impossible to shift with the 1-4 lever in gear and the tractor stopped completely. Symptoms evident in low & reverse ranges as well as high which is shifted by a different fork. We are all looking for the solution, I just thought I'd add what I observed. John, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here.
Rick

 

[Bern]

I agree that the range part of that box is non-syncroed, so if the gears grind without stopping, then it pretty much has to be a clutch issue. Pilot bearing dragging, misadjusted pressure plate, wrong clutch disc, maybe burrs on the input shaft, etc. could all contribute to this problem. How about a flywheel with excessive runout?

 

[RickB]

It's not grinding. It simply won't shift ranges with the speed lever in gear.

 

[leebbb]

This may not help a bit, but I was having trouble shifting both range and gear lever on my 5610 with cab, to the point of having to use both hands on the gear shift. Range lever would grind and sometimes tractor would jump a little when changing ranges. I adjusted the clutch and it didn't change a thing. I finally crawled up under the cab and soaked the linkages with PB blaster, the next time I used it the difference was incredible, no more problems. Like I said this may not help you at all.

 

[RodinNS]

Was it a flat floor cab with the shift levers to the side, or a column shift?
It sounds like the strain is not coming off the gears? If it's not that then it must be a problem in the linkage or rails... I dunno.
I've never had the 8x4 apart and hope I never do.
I know the last time I had a problem with my 77 not shifting like that it had sheared the pinch bolt in the clutch cross shaft and it wasn't fully releasing... but then it would spin up once the lever was put in neutral. I had to shift the range while the main was in neutral, then hammer the main into gear for a bit until I got around to splitting her.

I wonder if there isn't just a bunch of wear on the rails and levers under the cover and they're starting to bind? I would say that to some extent the range lever is stiff on that transmission, but it shouldn't be that bad...
I'd hazard a guess that this will be an expensive one to troubleshoot too.

Rod

 

[richardinnz]

There is an external shift rail under the cab floor. The shift rail slides in nylon bushes, check this for wear,and / or lack of lubrication. I have also known these shafts to break.

 

[richardinnz]

Forgot to ask, is is floor mounted gear shift?

 

[John Fila]

No trouble shifting 1-2-3-4 but the Hi-Lo-Reverse symptoms are about the same as what you describe. It would sure be a surprise if it was a linkage problem. But at least a pleasant surprise.

 

[John Fila]

Its not what I would call a conventional floor mount with the levers going straight down into the transmission. They mount on the right side of the column housing the steering shaft

 

[John Fila]

I'm not sure exactly what parts were replaced but I think they probably did a thorough clutch repair and included all the parts and properly adjusted it all. The thing is none of that had the slightest affect on the problem.

 

[John Fila]

Thanks for joining the discussion Rick. I didn't know you were a participant on this forum. Just one comment/correction to your post; Placing the 1-4 in neutral sometimes, but not always, allows me to Hi-Lo-Reverse shift.
I do want to take a sentence the thank Rick for his helpful and very profession work on my problem. The dealership should be very proud of him.
BTW I'm not related and have no association to Rick or the dealership. Hope I'm not violating any commercial exclusion clause on this site

 

[John Fila]

Although I agree with Rick, I can't say that it doesn't grind at all. In order to shift, if I let the clutch out just a bit and it slips into gear, there is a bit of a grind and the tractor lurches. This occurs early in the cycle well before there is any evidence the tractor wants to move. In other words as I let the clutch engage ever so slowly, the first thing that happens is the slight grind and/ or feeling that something is releasing allowing the hi-lo shift to engage followed by a lurch. Everything at that point remains stationary and I can proceed with normal functions.

 

[John Fila]

Strange thing is the problem is helped by the reverse of what you describe. You suggest coming to a complete stop before shifting. I cant come to a complete stop then shift. But can shift if I'm still moving.
Thanks for the shifting procedure but I sure hope I don't have to follow it. I do a lot of forward-reverse shifting in my use of the tractor. Short distance forward-short distance back -short distance forward, etc.,etc.,.

 

[John Fila]

Its a column shift.

 

[richardinnz]

If it is a column mounted shift you wont have that selector shaft, pull the panels from the under the dash and get some lube in there, they can get dry and make the linkage bind.

 

[RodinNS]

I've been thinking more about this....
If you don't find that the linkage is the problem, and you probably won't...
I think I'd start looking in the direction of the forward part of the transmission being "tight". I'd suspect that it's not spinning freely or it's maintaining a load on the gears in some way. The range shift is in a rear compartment in that box, is not syncronized, and as such must be shifted "freely". When you pop the main lever out, you take the strain off. When you ease into the clutch, you turn the shafts to align things and it shifts.
I think I'd lean towards a bearing going south or a thrust washer galling up somewhere, or something along those lines. Again, this is assuming that there is NO drag from the clutch or pilot bearing and that this is not a dual power transmission that could have impending problems...
I think the answer will lie inside and won't be found until it's opened up. THAT WILL BE EXPENSIVE unless rick is into volunteering his time....

Rod

 

[Steven Fortney]

Does anyone else have a problem with starting their Ford 5610 when it's a little cooler out? Under freezing my tractor is a real pain to start and the battery does not seem to have enough cranking power most the time. (and it's new)
thanks