Ford 7810 advancing pump timing possible?

[Echo575]

Is it possible to advance pump timing easily on a ford 7810? I know advancing timing increases power and reduces smoke and I have done it on all my old diesel cars but not on a tractor or a vehicle that is not a IDI diesel.

I want to advance it by 1 or 2 degrees to see if there is an improvement in power.

The issue is I don't know how to do it, the pump does not seem to be able to just be rotated on the mounting flange like on older cars so how would I be able to do a small adjustment? I imagine if you move the alignment marks that are on the gears, the timing will be way more than 1-2 degrees off then but I don't know.

 

[Bern]

If the pump is not mounted with bolts from the outside, then that means it was mounted with bolts from the inside to discourage exactly what it is you're trying to do. Which makes the answer to your first question a big "No".

 

[Destroked 450]

If the pump is not mounted with bolts from the outside, then that means it was mounted with bolts from the inside to discourage exactly what it is you're trying to do. Which makes the answer to your first question a big "No".

Does the 7810 use the inline Simms pump with the adjustable gear or a rotary pump

 

[Sean in PA]

Does the 7810 use the inline Simms pump with the adjustable gear or a rotary pump

The parts drawing shows it to be an in-line pump, but the mounting flange is not slotted so the timing cannot be adjusted by rotating the pump.

 

[Destroked 450]

The parts drawing shows it to be an in-line pump, but the mounting flange is not slotted so the timing cannot be adjusted by rotating the pump.

Yes that pump doesn’t rotate, timing is adjusted on the gear inside the front cover

 

[Echo575]

Yes that pump doesn’t rotate, timing is adjusted on the gear inside the front cover

Do I need to loosen bolts and turn that 1 gear a little bit or is the timing adjusted by changing the position on the teeth?

 

[Bern]

Do I need to loosen bolts and turn that 1 gear a little bit or is the timing adjusted by changing the position on the teeth?

Can you send us a pic of the pump? I assumed it was rotary pump, however my advice changes if it's inline.

 

[Echo575]

Can you send us a pic of the pump? I assumed it was rotary pump, however my advice changes if it's inline.

I don't have a pic right now but it's an inline pump.

 

[Echo575]

I checked the timing on my turbocharged ford 6610 today and found it to be in the factory timing. I advanced the timing 2 degrees and compared how fast the tractor starts up. It was 10c colder than yesterday and the tractor still started noticeably faster than yesterday with the stock timing. I couldn't test it any further since I have the belts off because I discovered that the water pump belt tensioner bearing was very close to failure and I'm getting a new one tomorrow.

The tractor also idles 50 rpm higher now. It used to idle at 650 but itdles at 700 rpm now without any adjustment of fueling or throttle levers which would indicate that it's more efficient with the same fuel since it injects it sooner now.

 

[Dieseltech]

I checked the timing on my turbocharged ford 6610 today and found it to be in the factory timing. I advanced the timing 2 degrees and compared how fast the tractor starts up. It was 10c colder than yesterday and the tractor still started noticeably faster than yesterday with the stock timing. I couldn't test it any further since I have the belts off because I discovered that the water pump belt tensioner bearing was very close to failure and I'm getting a new one tomorrow.

The tractor also idles 50 rpm higher now. It used to idle at 650 but itdles at 700 rpm now without any adjustment of fueling or throttle levers which would indicate that it's more efficient with the same fuel since it injects it sooner now.

The spec card book I have shows the early 6610 used the Simms inline pump, and later have the CAV DPS rotary injection pump. The inline pump is constant beginning/variable end of injection. The rotary is constant end/variable beginning of injection, and pump also has a speed advance block to further advance timing as speed increases. Depending on which pump you have, a slight timing advance MIGHT make the engine sound better, but it's possible the full load power MIGHT also drop a bit. In most cases the stock timing works the best, and I would never change timing without checking the full load power on a PTO dynamometer. Most Fords with the Simms use 23 degrees BTDC flywheel timing, there are some Cummins B and C series that have only 12-14 degrees BTDC now, which REALLY helps the low speed torque rise.

 

[Bern]

I checked the timing on my turbocharged ford 6610 today and found it to be in the factory timing. I advanced the timing 2 degrees and compared how fast the tractor starts up. It was 10c colder than yesterday and the tractor still started noticeably faster than yesterday with the stock timing. I couldn't test it any further since I have the belts off because I discovered that the water pump belt tensioner bearing was very close to failure and I'm getting a new one tomorrow.

The tractor also idles 50 rpm higher now. It used to idle at 650 but itdles at 700 rpm now without any adjustment of fueling or throttle levers which would indicate that it's more efficient with the same fuel since it injects it sooner now.

The 6610 was built before emission controls. Why then do you seem to think that the factory would time it for anything less than optimum with regards to fuel economy and power?

If your 6610 uses the inline pump, and if indeed it runs better and has more power than before, then it means that your adjustment simply compensated for internal wear in your pump.

 

[Echo575]

The 6610 was built before emission controls. Why then do you seem to think that the factory would time it for anything less than optimum with regards to fuel economy and power?

If your 6610 uses the inline pump, and if indeed it runs better and has more power than before, then it simply means that your adjustment simply compensated for internal wear in your pump.

Yes I would imagine that it would be quite advanced from the factory but I think there is a safety margin with the timing. You are probably right that the pump internal wear causes some retardation in the timing too.

I have 2 1970s Mercedes diesels and they could be advanced 2-3 degrees from the factory timing safely with nice gains.

I ordered injector nozzles and will be doing those soon.

 

[Destroked 450]

I ordered injector nozzles and will be doing those soon.

Is there something that makes you think it needs new injector nozzles
Have you pop tested them

 

[Echo575]

Is there something that makes you think in needs new injector nozzles
Have you pop tested them

It smokes white bluish smoke until it has warmed up completely, the nozzles were last changed around 30 years ago so I will do it now.
I haven't pop tested them but they didn't cost too much either. They will arrive in a few days so I am going to check the spray patterns anyways then and change the nozzles.

The 6610 smokes quite a bit more than the 7810, it could just be that the engine is a bit worn but I will see if this makes a difference.

The tractor has good power and doesn't burn oil either

 

[Sean in PA]

the nozzles were last changed around 30 years ago

The 7810 was made between 1989 and 1996, so 30 years ago that tractor would have been 5 years old or less. Why did it need new injector nozzles after that short of a time?

 

[Echo575]

The 7810 was made between 1989 and 1996, so 30 years ago that tractor would have been 5 years old or less. Why did it need new injector nozzles after that short of a time?

The 6610 is the one I was talking about, it's 1984 I think, I don't know why the nozzles were changed. I hadn't even been born yet so I can't say.

 

[Destroked 450]

Is your 6610 a factory turbo tractor or has the turbo been added
I know a turbo model was available in certain countries but the US was not one so my 6610 does not have one, it is a later model with a rotary pump

 

[Echo575]

Is your 6610 a factory turbo tractor or has the turbo been added
I know a turbo model was available in certain countries but the US was not one so my 6610 does not have one, it is a later model with a rotary pump

Turbo was added when it was new, it has an inline pump.

 

[Echo575]

Today I changed the nozzles. The old nozzles had a bit different spray than the new ones and the pressure had dropped to 3250 psi, I set the new ones at 3400 psi. I also checked the engine compression since I had the injectors off and it was 280-290 psi on all cylinders.

The good news is that it feels like a different machine when you look at the exhaust, it smokes way less now. I was cultivating with it today and it smoked noticeably less. Before going in some spots on the field that had rougher terrain that puts more load, it would start putting black smoke without touching the throttle but now it no longer does that.