Ford 860 - Very little oil to rockers

[Kurt J]

172ci Engine rebuilt and first start I'm getting 50 psi on the gauge. Takes ~10 to build pressure. The bigger issue is that there is very little oil flow to the rocker arm. It takes about 20 seconds for the rocker arm shaft to fill and then just dribbles out of the short drain back tube. There is no oil pressure to speak of at the top end. No spraying or splashing around to lube the valve springs or lift rods. So, 50 psi on the gauge, oil level good, grommet on feed tube is new and fully seated when installed, tubes are not plugged. Has anyone had this issue and found the problem? This weekend I plan to pull the pump and see if I can find a piece of debris that may be restricting the feed to the tube. Maybe direct some air into the circuit to see if everything is open. Any insight before I dig deeper would be appreciated.
Kurt J.

 

[Greg1959]

Oil line to rockers not seated, therefore allowing seepage and
not getting enough pressure to pump the oil out the oil tube.

I know this sounds wierd...I hope I'm explaining it to you to
understand.

 

[Dieseltech]

Some engines don't put full oil pressure to the rocker arms, but "meter" the rocker arm flow through a cam bearing. Long as some oil is at the overflow tube I'd think it's OK..

 

[showcrop]

As Dieseltech said it is metered. it goes up through a hole drilled through the camshaft which lines up with galleries for only a small part of the camshaft rotation.

 

[David G]

They dont need much flow.

 

[Kurt J]

(quoted from post at 21:38:37 02/05/20) 172ci Engine rebuilt and first start I'm getting 50 psi on the gauge. Takes ~10 to build pressure. The bigger issue is that there is very little oil flow to the rocker arm. It takes about 20 seconds for the rocker arm shaft to fill and then just dribbles out of the short drain back tube. There is no oil pressure to speak of at the top end. No spraying or splashing around to lube the valve springs or lift rods. So, 50 psi on the gauge, oil level good, grommet on feed tube is new and fully seated when installed, tubes are not plugged. Has anyone had this issue and found the problem? This weekend I plan to pull the pump and see if I can find a piece of debris that may be restricting the feed to the tube. Maybe direct some air into the circuit to see if everything is open. Any insight before I dig deeper would be appreciated.
Kurt J.

I'm trying to attach a short video that may show what I'm seeing with the engine running. Maybe one of you can weigh in if this is normal oil flow or not. I'm a little nervous to assume it's good since I just went through a long engine rebuild process. I don't want to take steps backwards if this isn't right. Thanks again for all the feedback. Kurt

 

[Kurt J]

(quoted from post at 15:21:01 02/06/20)

(quoted from post at 21:38:37 02/05/20) 172ci Engine rebuilt and first start I'm getting 50 psi on the gauge. Takes ~10 to build pressure. The bigger issue is that there is very little oil flow to the rocker arm. It takes about 20 seconds for the rocker arm shaft to fill and then just dribbles out of the short drain back tube. There is no oil pressure to speak of at the top end. No spraying or splashing around to lube the valve springs or lift rods. So, 50 psi on the gauge, oil level good, grommet on feed tube is new and fully seated when installed, tubes are not plugged. Has anyone had this issue and found the problem? This weekend I plan to pull the pump and see if I can find a piece of debris that may be restricting the feed to the tube. Maybe direct some air into the circuit to see if everything is open. Any insight before I dig deeper would be appreciated.
Kurt J.

I'm trying to attach a short video that may show what I'm seeing with the engine running. Maybe one of you can weigh in if this is normal oil flow or not. I'm a little nervous to assume it's good since I just went through a long engine rebuild process. I don't want to take steps backwards if this isn't right. Thanks again for all the feedback. Kurt

[video play=false:395498cd46]https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/videos/mvvideo48907.mov[/video:395498cd46]
I had to shrink the video. Notice there is no oil flowing from the rocker arm pee hole to the valve stem. I thought there would be visible oil. Looking for you expert opinions. Thanks Kurt

 

[showcrop]

Kurt, the video needs to be much longer and much better focused in order to see if the correct amount of oil, which is very slight, is flowing.

 

[Kurt J]

Sorry, I can't post the video longer than that because of the file size allowed. I shrank it to <2MB and that is all the would fit

 

[Kurt J]

Showcrop or the other tractor Guru's, Do you mind if I e-mail you the full video which is clearer and shows more details pertaining to my question. Thanks.
Kurt

 

[Kurt J]

So I did some more work on this. New oil feed tube seal is installed and seats very tight (but it was originally as well). Cleaned up everything. Removed the oil feed tube and cleaned, blew air from the oil tube seal location into the block back to the oil filter - All is open and clear. I oriented the cam shaft to align the oil feed hole and blew air through - All is open and clear. New cup plugs installed in both ends of the rocker arm shaft - all was clean and clear when apart. I'm getting 40-50 psi depending on throttle position. I'm getting oil flow from the rockers to each push rod, but nothing coming out of the rocker pee holes on the valve and spring side, even when throttled up. I'm worried with no oil flow there. (See photo)
Questions:
1. I noticed the oil holes in the rocker shaft are facing straight down. Is that the correct orientation? I'm not sure if someone rebuilt this prior to me owning. Just want to verify.
2. I have read that people have partially pinched the end of the oil return tube to help build up pressure in the rocker arm shaft. Has anyone done this or heard of that being done?
3. There is a circumferential groove in the rocker bore to feed the push rods. However, the pee hole that feeds the valve and spring side is off to the side of that and has no groove to internally direct oil to it. Should there be? (See Photo)

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 14:51:45 11/09/20) So I did some more work on this. New oil feed tube seal is installed and seats very tight (but it was originally as well). Cleaned up everything. Removed the oil feed tube and cleaned, blew air from the oil tube seal location into the block back to the oil filter - All is open and clear. I oriented the cam shaft to align the oil feed hole and blew air through - All is open and clear. New cup plugs installed in both ends of the rocker arm shaft - all was clean and clear when apart. I'm getting 40-50 psi depending on throttle position. I'm getting oil flow from the rockers to each push rod, but nothing coming out of the rocker pee holes on the valve and spring side, even when throttled up. I'm worried with no oil flow there. (See photo)
Questions:
1. I noticed the oil holes in the rocker shaft are facing straight down. Is that the correct orientation? I'm not sure if someone rebuilt this prior to me owning. Just want to verify.
2. I have read that people have partially pinched the end of the oil return tube to help build up pressure in the rocker arm shaft. Has anyone done this or heard of that being done?
3. There is a circumferential groove in the rocker bore to feed the push rods. However, the pee hole that feeds the valve and spring side is off to the side of that and has no groove to internally direct oil to it. Should there be? (See Photo)

Kurt, what is the oil return tube. I am not familiar with it. To the best of my knowledge the little bit of oil tht gets up there runs down the rear push rod hole. you should start a new thread for this because only half of the guys will even see this. The rest are on classic view and can't see anything old. You should put it on the Ford forum.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 18:26:03 11/09/20) Thanks Showcrop. I will repost new. The oil return tube I refer to is the one on top of the rocker shaft, opposite the feed tube. It dump excess oil back to sump. Maybe my terminology is off. Thanks

urt needs more problems....like something to really worry about! :roll: