Ford 861

[dwb-ne]

I used this tractor as my baler tractor all summer with no problems. Went to start it last week (been sitting inside for maybe 3 weeks) and it barely started and when it did start it was real sluggish. It would speed up to the normal rpm briefly (maybe 1 second) then go back to running sluggish. It would cycle back and forth until warmed up then it would constantly run sluggish with absolutely no power. I replaced points and condenser, coil. Cap, rotor and plugs all look good. I played around with the power valve adjustment on the carb with no luck. This has 6V positive ground. Any help appreciated.

 

[Btzj02]

Test for fuel flow to carburetor. Verify your problem is not between the fuel tank and the carburetor. You threw a lot of parts at the electricals so I would verify a good 1/4 spark and if the spark is good verify correct timing. Since you replaced spark plug wires also make sure you have the correct firing order, 1,2,4,3.

 

[dwb-ne]

Test for fuel flow to carburetor. Verify your problem is not between the fuel tank and the carburetor. You threw a lot of parts at the electricals so I would verify a good 1/4 spark and if the spark is good verify correct timing. Since you replaced spark plug wires also make sure you have the correct firing order, 1,2,4,3.

I will check that out. Thanks

 

[showcrop]

Verify not just TO carburetor but through it, by removing the plug at rthe bottom of the carb. Time it for two minutes. You wan to catch a pint.

 

[Jim.ME]

Verify not just TO carburetor but through it, by removing the plug at rthe bottom of the carb. Time it for two minutes. You wan to catch a pint.

I will add this is starting after the initial heavy flow of the bowl emptying slows.

 

[dwb-ne]

Test for fuel flow to carburetor. Verify your problem is not between the fuel tank and the carburetor. You threw a lot of parts at the electricals so I would verify a good 1/4 spark and if the spark is good verify correct timing. Since you replaced spark plug wires also make sure you have the correct firing order, 1,2,4,3.

I looked at the timing and when set to 5 degrees BTDC it runs like crap. I have to advance the timing for it to run good. Not even close to the 5 degrees. I'm wondering if there is an issue with counter weights in the distributor. Can I access them to inspect? Are they replaceable?

 

[pomester]

I looked at the timing and when set to 5 degrees BTDC it runs like crap. I have to advance the timing for it to run good. Not even close to the 5 degrees. I'm wondering if there is an issue with counter weights in the distributor. Can I access them to inspect? Are they replaceable?

To access the centrifugal advance, remove the plate on which the points are mounted. Two screws.

Pictures from a rebuild I did a while back. I don't have exactly the picture I'd like...

 

[Smokyrt]

I looked at the timing and when set to 5 degrees BTDC it runs like crap. I have to advance the timing for it to run good. Not even close to the 5 degrees. I'm wondering if there is an issue with counter weights in the distributor. Can I access them to inspect? Are they replaceable?

My guess is that the spark advance is not working correctly. The centrifugal weights need to be really free to fly out. The cams need to be free to advance. double check the points gap.. set to 016. Also, do you have the resistor? mounted on the firewall? if so, it might have gone bad on you. Pomester has you on the right track. on the other hand, some "stale" gas, especially if it has ethanol in it, might need to be drained and replaced with fresher gas. If you have any rubber fuel lines sometimes they swell (especially from ethanol) and restrict proper flow of fuel, so check those and replace if in doubt.

 

[john in la]

Before we go down the rabbit hole.
Does the engine idle well but fall on its face under power.
Or does it run bad all the time even at idle.

A distributor with no vacuum advance (weights only) does not function at idle.
The springs are suppose to be tight enough it will not let the weights move to you increase RPM's.
This gives you more power under load because it allows full combustion (by firing a little early) before the piston (moving faster) reaches the bottom of the stroke.

So if you need to advance the timing to get it to idle well you have a poor combustion problem.
The fuel is not burning fast enough based on piston movement.
IE
Bad gas or weak spark.
To rich or lean carb setting.
If it idles well at start up but runs bad after warm up you could have a fuel flow problem.
The gas is not flowing to the carb as fast as it is using it.

If it idles well at normal timing setting but falls on its face under load you could I said could have a timing advance problem.
The springs could be weak allowing for timing to advance at idle giving you no advance with higher RPM.
Or the weights could be stuck giving no advance at all.

From your description so far I believe your motor will not idle well.
That is a combustion problem not a advance weight problem.

 

[Btzj02]

When I purchased my 8N51 I found the weights frozen in place. It ran well enough to drive into the shop but just barely. A timing light would show you for sure if the ignition was correctly advancing as RPM's increase.

 

[Eman85]

I looked at the timing and when set to 5 degrees BTDC it runs like crap. I have to advance the timing for it to run good. Not even close to the 5 degrees. I'm wondering if there is an issue with counter weights in the distributor. Can I access them to inspect? Are they replaceable?

Set at 5 keep looking with the timing light and increase the RPMs, if the timing advances the weights are working and you might have other problems.

 

[dwb-ne]

Before we go down the rabbit hole.
Does the engine idle well but fall on its face under power.
Or does it run bad all the time even at idle.

A distributor with no vacuum advance (weights only) does not function at idle.
The springs are suppose to be tight enough it will not let the weights move to you increase RPM's.
This gives you more power under load because it allows full combustion (by firing a little early) before the piston (moving faster) reaches the bottom of the stroke.

So if you need to advance the timing to get it to idle well you have a poor combustion problem.
The fuel is not burning fast enough based on piston movement.
IE
Bad gas or weak spark.
To rich or lean carb setting.
If it idles well at start up but runs bad after warm up you could have a fuel flow problem.
The gas is not flowing to the carb as fast as it is using it.

If it idles well at normal timing setting but falls on its face under load you could I said could have a timing advance problem.
The springs could be weak allowing for timing to advance at idle giving you no advance with higher RPM.
Or the weights could be stuck giving no advance at all.

From your description so far I believe your motor will not idle well.
That is a combustion problem not a advance weight problem.

Does not idle well at normal timing have to advance timing to get it to idle good. At normal timing (5 degress BTDC) or advanced past the 5 degrees either way it has no power under load. I have to baby the clutch to get it to move when pulling a full load of manure. Now I'm wondering if it's fuel related? I have played around with the main/power jet on the carb. It's doesn't matter where I set it it runs the same....no power

 

[Eman85]

Did you check the fuel flow and quality of gas?

 

[showcrop]

Partly because it takes just seconds, a problem with low speed running is usually addressed first by checking the carburetor low speed adjustment. The low speed needle is the one up at the top above where the gas enters. Your operators manual says to, before starting, turn it all the way in to where it just seats, then back out one turn. Then start up and turn it slowly in until it starts to "roll" from being too rich, then open back up little. The manual then says to set the main jet at one and 1/8 turn out, and leave it there until you can get it on a dyno or in the field under load. Your main jet doesn't even come into the picture until the engine is actually working under load.

 

[dwb-ne]

To access the centrifugal advance, remove the plate on which the points are mounted. Two screws.

Pictures from a rebuild I did a while back. I don't have exactly the picture I'd like...
View attachment 135105

View attachment 135106

Thanks for the pictures, I will take a look at mine.

 

[Smokyrt]

I agree with John from LA. Double check your fuel supply. The quality of the gas, then the fuel filter (and screen inside the glass bowl). Then the lines. I would eliminate those simple items, before tweaking the carb and jets. i don't think you have an ignition problem (until you rule out fuel issue). Does any black smoke come out of the exhaust. This might indicate a fuel bowl float allowing too much gas (hole in the float), but it would be obvious. Usually when that happens fuel runs out the choke from the carb. I suspect you have bad fuel, or bad fuel lines or filter restriction.

 

[showcrop]

I agree with John from LA. Double check your fuel supply. The quality of the gas, then the fuel filter (and screen inside the glass bowl). Then the lines. I would eliminate those simple items, before tweaking the carb and jets. i don't think you have an ignition problem (until you rule out fuel issue). Does any black smoke come out of the exhaust. This might indicate a fuel bowl float allowing too much gas (hole in the float), but it would be obvious. Usually when that happens fuel runs out the choke from the carb. I suspect you have bad fuel, or bad fuel lines or filter restriction.

The "before tweaking the carb and jets" ship has already sailed, LOL.

 

[Rbellucci]

Check the float level first. If it was sitting for 3 weeks, there’s a good chance the float is either sticking slightly, or the fuel level is just a little low in the bowl from evaporation/gunk settling. That brief speed-up you mention always sounds like it's pulling a reserve of fuel momentarily, then goes back to running lean/starving. A full ignition overhaul like you did is great for eliminating that side, but with the carb adjustments not helping, gotta be fuel delivery right? Especially on 6V positive ground systems, if the battery wasn't kept topped up, you could get a weak spark too, but the way it comes on then drops off really points to fuel flow. Try running a slightly richer mix than usual just to test.

 

[showcrop]

Check the float level first. If it was sitting for 3 weeks, there’s a good chance the float is either sticking slightly, or the fuel level is just a little low in the bowl from evaporation/gunk settling. That brief speed-up you mention always sounds like it's pulling a reserve of fuel momentarily, then goes back to running lean/starving. A full ignition overhaul like you did is great for eliminating that side, but with the carb adjustments not helping, gotta be fuel delivery right? Especially on 6V positive ground systems, if the battery wasn't kept topped up, you could get a weak spark too, but the way it comes on then drops off really points to fuel flow. Try running a slightly richer mix than usual just to test.

While the float level is certainly a possible cause of this problem, The length of time that it takes puts it after a number of other things to check for me.

 

[john in la]

While the float level is certainly a possible cause of this problem, The length of time that it takes puts it after a number of other things to check for me.

I think float level would be easy to check in this case.
It’s obviously not sticking fully closed as the tractor will run.
It’s obviously not sticking open as gas is not running everywhere.
And a fuel flow test by pulling the bowl plug would show if it is sticking closed enough to make a difference.

The float could have developed a pin hole that could cause it to sit a little low causing problems the first day but enough time has passed that the float would be fully full by now and the needle would be fully open.