Ford 8N Electronic Ignition Options

[gregerallen]

Throwing around switching over my Ford 8N to electronic ignition. Before I do I wanted to ask if other had luck with this and if there is a particular one someone would recommend that has had luck with. Also if there are ones to stay away from that would be appreciated. I realize all situations are not the same but any guidance or help would be greatly appreciated.

Would anyone recommend any specific brand/type of plugs or wires to get as well?

Thanks!

 

[Brianjbell]

Pertronix is what most use. See the link for Bruce(VA)'s 50 tips, there is a tip hidden in there on type of wires to use. Do you have a front mount or side mount dist? I had a 1951 8N side mount unit for years and never even had to adjust the points on it. It was the best starting tractor I've ever owned and it wasn't EI. Most will also recommend the Autolite AL437 plug for these as well.
50 Tips

 

[Bruce (VA)]

If you do a search on the subject on this forum, you will get enough hits to keep you busy reading all day.

The two most important questions you need to answer are: why do I want to do this and what do I expect EI to do?

If your tractor is 12 volt and your motivation is that you don't want to fool with points anymore, you will be happy with EI. If your tractor doesn't run well EI probably won't meet your expectations.

As to models, get the Pertronix Ignitor II and suppression plug wires. Special plugs or a coil aren't necessary.
75 Tips

 

[Bruce (VA)]

You have a good memory! Tip # 27 is for points ignition. Copper wires only. But, Pertronix EI's require suppression plug wires because the RFI from the copper wires will burn out the module.

I guess they never heard of shielding....
75 Tips

 

[Richard G.]

My 52 still has points and gets used several times a week winter and summer. Been in the family since new. I will never go to EI.
Richard in NW SC

 

[Kenockee 8N]

Greg,

I switched my 8N over to EI from points just because I was not familiar with points and my tractor was already 12 Volts. Mine ran good on points and it runs good on EI.

I have the Pertronix unit. There is supposedly a second generation that will not burn out if you accidently leave the key on.

As Bruce said though, if you are doing it because your tractor does not run well on points, most likely EI will not solve the problem.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 15:16:08 03/30/17)
Greg,

I switched my 8N over to EI from points just because I was not familiar with points and my tractor was already 12 Volts. Mine ran good on points and it runs good on EI.

I have the Pertronix unit. [color=red:6bc8cc6b7c]There is supposedly a second generation that will not burn out if you accidently leave the key on. [/color:6bc8cc6b7c]

Pertronix EI with Ignitor II Module for Ford 9N, 2N, 8N tractors:

Front distributor - 12V, (-) ground - p/n 91247
Side Distributor - 12V, (-) ground - p/n 91244A

TOH

 

[Bob]

(quoted from post at 12:32:16 03/30/17) Pertronix is what most use. 50 Tips

So what do the rest use?

AFAIK, pertronix is the only game in town, although there may be some resellers selling them under their own name.

Just out of curiosity, can you tell us about any alternatives, Brian?

 

[Brianjbell]

Precision spark makes a lower cost alternative, but I've never used it and not impressed with the photos I've seen, although they guarantee them for 5 years and they are roughly 50 bucks cheaper than the
alternatives. Tisco/A&I has their own 'brand' to but I suspect its rebadged Pertronix. I've graduated to the 3 cylinder thousand series (3000D and 4000D) now and haven't worked much on any N's since I sold
mine (I'm still regretting selling it...for all it lacked in power compared to my 3000D, it made up for in its nimbleness and ease of maintenance!)

 

[Kenockee 8N]

Thanks TOH. I knew someone would know the P/N's. I just remember someone on here telling me about the upgraded one and wanted to let the OP know there were different options available.

 

[Dell (WA)]

Bruce........shielding??? Back in the late '50's, I was involved in mobile Amature Radio, I actually slipped braided co-ax shielding over my ignition wires on my 6-volt flathead Ford V-8 to cut down on ignition noise on my short wave radio reciever. Guys said it looked like a mechanical cow milker. Hadda 500vdc PE-103 dynamotor fer my XMTR final amplifier. Boy did that suck the power outta my engine when I keyed it. Hadda center loaded fiberglass rear whip antenna. Don't talk to me about XSTR's (grin).......dah.dit.dah...Dell (K0OAZ)

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 11:14:17 03/31/17)
Thanks TOH. I knew someone would know the P/N's. I just remember someone on here telling me about the upgraded one and wanted to let the OP know there were different options available.

There are some 6V and +/- ground versions of the Ignitor II module as well. Page 32 of the Pertronix IE catalog has a complete listing of the options available for the N-series tractors - pay close attention to the footnotes:

[u:88f4f4117b]Pertronix Electronic Igntion Conversions - 2015 (PDF)[/u:88f4f4117b]

For whatever reason the tractor supply places seem to offer only the Ignitor I versions. To get the Ignitor II versions you will have to shop the web ;-)

TOH

 

[Kenockee 8N]

(quoted from post at 08:36:08 03/31/17) Bruce........shielding??? Back in the late '50's, I was involved in mobile Amature Radio, I actually slipped braided co-ax shielding over my ignition wires on my 6-volt flathead Ford V-8 to cut down on ignition noise on my short wave radio reciever. Guys said it looked like a mechanical cow milker. Hadda 500vdc PE-103 dynamotor fer my XMTR final amplifier. Boy did that suck the power outta my engine when I keyed it. Hadda center loaded fiberglass rear whip antenna. Don't talk to me about XSTR's (grin).......dah.dit.dah...Dell (K0OAZ)

Corvettes have a shielding around the distributor so that the radio will work. The fiberglass body does not shield the radio from the ignition noise.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

(quoted from post at 08:36:08 03/31/17) Bruce........shielding??? Back in the late '50's, I was involved in mobile Amature Radio, I actually slipped braided co-ax shielding over my ignition wires on my 6-volt flathead Ford V-8 to cut down on ignition noise on my short wave radio reciever. Guys said it looked like a mechanical cow milker. Hadda 500vdc PE-103 dynamotor fer my XMTR final amplifier. Boy did that suck the power outta my engine when I keyed it. Hadda center loaded fiberglass rear whip antenna. Don't talk to me about XSTR's (grin).......dah.dit.dah...Dell (K0OAZ)

I started to strip the shielding out of some old RG58 I have around here and put it on the plug wires on the TD. But I just couldn't look at it! And no buying suppression plug wires either; the TD wires screw into the cap. So I went back to points. Probably better off. If I had a tractor w/ EI that failed, I leave it in the field & walk home. Not so w/ the TD!

 

[JMOR]

Shielding might not have fixed the problem anyway, as the destruction may be conducted rather than radiated. Resistor wires reduce both conducted & radiated.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 16:22:38 03/31/17) Shielding might not have fixed the problem anyway, as the destruction may be conducted rather than radiated. Resistor wires reduce both conducted & radiated.

i was wondering about this myself. how exactly does an EI work? what process does it use to determine when to send the coil voltage to the plug?

as far as the old way goes, i haven't touched my points since i bought the tractor ('47 2N), which will be 6 years this summer, with about 100 - 125 hours of operation since then. is it unusual for the points to behave this long, or is their failure over a similar period unusual?

does indoor v outdoor storage affect the points? my pole barn is very humid (gravel floor), but on the flip side, the tractor is never directly rained on.

 

[grayrider]

Pertronix is the way to go, got a 53 Jubilee, a 62 Ford 601, a 63 Ford 4000 and a Minneapolis Moline all swapped over to electronic ignition, no more filing points or running to town for a condenser, easy to install , never had any problems.......

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 16:14:34 03/31/17)

(quoted from post at 16:22:38 03/31/17) Shielding might not have fixed the problem anyway, as the destruction may be conducted rather than radiated. Resistor wires reduce both conducted & radiated.

i was wondering about this myself. how exactly does an EI work? what process does it use to determine when to send the coil voltage to the plug?

The Pertronix unit uses a Hall effect sensor (pickup) and logic module mounted in place of the points and a magnetic ring on the rotor. When one of the magnets passes the pickup head it raises a low voltage trigger signal to the logic module which then interrupts current to the primary connection of the coil causing it to fire. When the magnet moves pass the pickup the trigger signal goes low, the module restores current flow to the coil, and the process repeats. You can think of it as solid state contact breaker points ;-)

TOH

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 16:14:34 03/31/17)

(quoted from post at 16:22:38 03/31/17) Shielding might not have fixed the problem anyway, as the destruction may be conducted rather than radiated. Resistor wires reduce both conducted & radiated.

i was wondering about this myself. how exactly does an EI work? what process does it use to determine when to send the coil voltage to the plug?

A two position Hall effect sensor:

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:14:34 03/31/17)

(quoted from post at 16:22:38 03/31/17) Shielding might not have fixed the problem anyway, as the destruction may be conducted rather than radiated. Resistor wires reduce both conducted & radiated.

i was wondering about this myself. how exactly does an EI work? what process does it use to determine when to send the coil voltage to the plug?

as far as the old way goes, i haven't touched my points since i bought the tractor ('47 2N), which will be 6 years this summer, with about 100 - 125 hours of operation since then. is it unusual for the points to behave this long, or is their failure over a similar period unusual?

does indoor v outdoor storage affect the points? my pole barn is very humid (gravel floor), but on the flip side, the tractor is never directly rained on.

ast time I changed points in my SMTA (used regularly mowing) was 2005. Have adjusted & cleaned maybe twice since 2005. 2007 for one 8N and the other 8N points run for 18 years. 8Ns are used regularly for road maintenance, mowing, disking and yes, despite a world of nay-Sayers, for rototilling. At end of 18 years the rubbing block was worn too much to set 0.025 gap and the contacts looked rough, but still ran. The front mount 8N stored in pole barn will occasionally have points oxidized enough to act as insulator & thus no fire, so burnishing then with rough paper will be needed. This mostly occurs due to extended non-use when it is at my son's place. I with few exceptions run all my tractors at intervals of weekly up to sometimes a month when they are home. I have found an alternative to paper burnishing & that is allowing those points to switch a higher voltage & current of 120VAC 60W lamp. Seems to blow away the oxidation. Points can oxidize, rubbing block wear away, contacts erode, but generally last a long time.
How does EI know when to fire? There are numerous schemes used by different manufacturers, some are a voltage induced in a coil either due to rotating magnet of a rotating reluctor which interrupts a magnetic path through the coil, thus generating a small electrical signal which triggers the device to switch coil primary current. Prestolite had a unique system, used in IH vehicles and AMC cars, which utilized a 400KHZ oscillator, whose amplitude was modulated by a rotating metal 'finger' wheel, then the signal was demodulated in much the same way as standard AM radio signals are demodulated and that demodulated signal was used to trigger the coil switching device. Sounds complex & it is relative to most, but it was all done in a single RCA IC, except for power switch. Claim to fame was the spark was not dependent on cranking speed as in most other schemes, but I guess the market didn't see the benefit as they are no more! Another was a rotating slotted wheel where the slots allowed light to shine thru from a light source to a photo-sensor cell which then sent a signal to the power switching device. Now as to the Pertronix unit for tractors, there is a plastic collar with magnets in it that slips over the points cam and as it rotates past the module (containing a magnetic sensor of some sort, and there are several possible candidates) a signal is generated to fire the primary coil current switching device which is also in the module.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 17:22:50 03/31/17) Now as to the Pertronix unit for tractors, there is a plastic collar with magnets in it that slips over the points cam and as it rotates past the module (containing a magnetic sensor of some sort, and [b:42f2393e58][u:42f2393e58][color=red:42f2393e58]there are several possible candidates[/color:42f2393e58][/u:42f2393e58][/b:42f2393e58]) a signal is generated to fire the primary coil current switching device which is also in the module.

What you talkin' bout Jesse (sic)?

I hate it when you are careful not to fib and I wasn't :roll: That made me go look for the gory details. This from the Pertronix FAQ suggests it is in fact Hall effect but I've heard it said not everything you read on the Internet is fact ;-)

TOH

[b:42f2393e58]WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOBE SENSOR AND HALL EFFECT KITS?[/b:42f2393e58]

Pertronix lobe sensing kits use unique lobe sensor technology, which uses the point cam to trigger, rather than a magnet sleeve or ring. [color=red:42f2393e58]The standard Hall Effect Ignitor module[/color:42f2393e58] has the integrated circuit triggered by the cobalt magnets in the magnet sleeve or ring that is mounted on the shaft (usually on the cam lobes).

 

[JMOR]