Ford 9n moved by itself

[kriskaudio]

I have a 9n. Strangest thing happened the other day. I used the tractor, then I went inside the house for several hours. I went back outside and the tractor had somehow moved by itself about 20 feet and dug itself into the side of my hill on my property. Loader and scraper were both down so it was stopped by gravity, thank goodness. I looked out the window and saw the tractor in this strange state, so I ran out to move it back where I parked it. The battery was completely drained. No one was around and I was home all day, so I know no one else could have moved it. Plus there was no where to go forward (trees and and hill in the way.)
I've been having some trouble with an intermittent starter switch problem. I push the button (button is down near the base of the gear shift) and nothing happens. Then I will wiggle it, maybe press from a slightly different angle and it will start to turn over like normal.
Well, before it moved by itself, I was able to start it and use the tractor for a while to do some light grading. Then parked it and shut it off. When I turned the key off the volt meter on the dash showed zero, as it should. I remember turning the switch back to the start position and I noticed it was reading -20 for some reason (usually it reads -6 as it is a 6v battery and system.) I thought it was an odd reading, but I just shut it off and removed the key per usual. Then the odd movement thing happened.
Anyone ever heard of this? I am dumbfounded.
Thoughts?

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 00:58:58 05/20/19) I have a 9n. Strangest thing happened the other day. I used the tractor, then I went inside the house for several hours. I went back outside and the tractor had somehow moved by itself about 20 feet and dug itself into the side of my hill on my property. Loader and scraper were both down so it was stopped by gravity, thank goodness. I looked out the window and saw the tractor in this strange state, so I ran out to move it back where I parked it. The battery was completely drained. No one was around and I was home all day, so I know no one else could have moved it. Plus there was no where to go forward (trees and and hill in the way.)
I've been having some trouble with an intermittent starter switch problem. I push the button (button is down near the base of the gear shift) and nothing happens. Then I will wiggle it, maybe press from a slightly different angle and it will start to turn over like normal.
Well, before it moved by itself, I was able to start it and use the tractor for a while to do some light grading. Then parked it and shut it off. When I turned the key off the volt meter on the dash showed zero, as it should. I remember turning the switch back to the start position and I noticed it was reading -20 for some reason (usually it reads -6 as it is a 6v battery and system.) I thought it was an odd reading, but I just shut it off and removed the key per usual. Then the odd movement thing happened.
Anyone ever heard of this? I am dumbfounded.
Thoughts?

ook for bad insulation on the wire from starter switch connection it to the solenoid small terminal. If that wire touches ground, the starter runs.

 

[Roger in Iowa]

Doesn't normally a 9N have a mechanical solenoid, not a ground wire to activate??

If left in gear did the starter activate and drive the tractor. Switch off so it just startered it to move?

 

[KCM]

I would say that is exactly what happened. When it hit the bank, the starter stalled out and drained the battery. The mechanical switch likely shorted inside. Time for a new switch, and hopefully it did not burn up the starter when it stalled and drew down the battery.

 

[kriskaudio]

(quoted from post at 06:43:11 05/20/19) I would say that is exactly what happened. When it hit the bank, the starter stalled out and drained the battery. The mechanical switch likely shorted inside. Time for a new switch, and hopefully it did not burn up the starter when it stalled and drew down the battery.

Yes, I did leave it in gear. I normally do since I don't want it to roll, and I had no idea this was even possible. From now on, neutral and wheel chalks!!
I did disconnect and charged up the battery and will be testing out everything today. Hopefully all will be okay. I will order a new switch for sure!

 

[Roger in Iowa]

The -20 was because the engine stopped with the points closed (direct short). No big deal unless you leave the key on.

 

[Den N Ms]

kriskaudio ,Bad starter switch.
Actually it was the old farmer that passed away,just wanting to take one last ride on his old tractor.

 

[HCooke]

Does it have a automotive type key start switch? They can short out and run the tractor with the starter motor. Not only dangerous, but it
can burn up the starter motor also.

 

[kriskaudio]

(quoted from post at 16:08:49 05/20/19) kriskaudio ,Bad starter switch.
Actually it was the old farmer that passed away,just wanting to take one last ride on his old tractor.

Man that old farmer sure dug a huge hole in my hill!

And yes, it has a key switch which is on the left of the steering column, but also a separate starter button which is down below, right above the gear shift base. The key in mine has three positions: -Middle (off) -Down (will not start unless turned to the down position...starter will crank, but engine will not start unless key is turned down) -Up (like the ACC/on position in a car to use the electronic accessories etc.)

 

[HCooke]

Yes those automotive type starter switches can do that. Recommend you remove it and replace it with a key switch that just turns on the
ignition circuit (power to the coil) and rewire the starter circuit so that the starter switch on the transmission powers the solenoid and
the starter. This has an added advantage of requiring the tractor be in neutral before starting. Good chance you will have to replace the
solenoid also.

 

[Farmer Dan]

Yep bad switch. Makes me smile everytime I hear about this happening. Get the correct switch and wire it properly. no need to use wheel chocks your N has parking brakes.

 

[kriskaudio]

(quoted from post at 06:06:57 05/22/19) Yep bad switch. Makes me smile everytime I hear about this happening. Get the correct switch and wire it properly. no need to use wheel chocks your N has parking brakes.

I charged up the battery and went out to work on it today. The moment I put the battery cables back on, the starter started turning (without the key in the ignition.) Out of curiosity I wanted to see if it would start up. So I put the key in and it fired right up. But the starter kept going after it was running and after about 20 seconds or so the engine stopped running. But the starter kept whining. I disconnected the battery to stop it. I did notice the wire going to the starter looked a bit freshly melted. That wire runs back to where the start push-button is located (button located down right above the base of the gear shift.) I'm not convinced its the key switch that is the problem, as the wiring appears to look okay. It certainly could be the key switch.
But perhaps the push-button is bad? Is this an easy swap out part?

Is this what I need to replace that button? https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/R7994_Switch-Push-Button_29914.htm
In the parts web page the only other ones look like for earlier models with the button on the dash.

My serial number is missing, but after some research based on identifiers with major parts (I-beam radius rods, transmission, steering wheel, fenders etc) I've narrowed it down to being a about a c1942-43 9n. Just mentioning for reference.

Thanks for all the info and help thus far, and any future advice.

-Kris

 

[kriskaudio]

Just thought I'd send an update. After digging in and investigating my tractor, I looked at the starter switch and noticed the piece of metal that serves as a jumper between the two points was completely gone (burned up or deteriorated away.) Also the wire going from there to the starter was badly melted. Because that metal was missing on the switch, there was nothing preventing the battery signal from going straight through to the starter, causing it to try to start on it's own and crank the engine.
So I bought a new 9n starter switch (the part online is called a Push Button Starter Switch). When I pulled out the old switch it was completely toast on the inside. Fried and rusted up looking, no more spring action. It was in the forever-pushed mode. We put the new switch in and wired up the battery etc. It fired right up (correctly!!) after turning the key and pushing the button! Amazing when things go right.

Trying to find the right part and find out how to do this repair was difficult to find online. It was also confusing on the forums. Many assume that because the 8n is extremely similar the 9n that most repairs and parts will be the same. One thing that I found is that the push button switch part and how you repair it is different on the 9n than the 8n. On the 8n, I guess you have to pull off the trans cover to access the nut/washer on the inside. You do not have to do this on the 9n. It just comes right out after loosening the nuts on the switch housing.
I also have the service manual that is titled "9n, 2n, and 8n." I scoured it and could not find the repair in there for this job. I found much better info in the manual I have that is titled "Ford Tractor Ferguson System Service Manual...for 9n and 2n."

Just thought I'd mention that to any tractor newbies like me who might do this repair one day.

 

[Den N Ms]

Krisk,Just for your info,You say,I looked at the starter switch and noticed the piece of metal that serves as a jumper between the two points was completely gone (burned up or deteriorated away.

What you saw was insulating heavy cardboard like material that goes between the two post of the switch.With a loop in between to prevent fallen metal objects from shorting the two posts.Not a steel jumper! A broken or rusted spring in the switch is what caused the starter to engage.

 

[kriskaudio]

(quoted from post at 16:32:57 06/24/19) Krisk,Just for your info,You say,I looked at the starter switch and noticed the piece of metal that serves as a jumper between the two points was completely gone (burned up or deteriorated away.

What you saw was insulating heavy cardboard like material that goes between the two post of the switch.With a loop in between to prevent fallen metal objects from shorting the two posts.Not a steel jumper! A broken or rusted spring in the switch is what caused the starter to engage.

Yes I guess it's not metal. But it certainly did not look like the new part!

 

[ScoutB]

I've purchased that switch twice now from 2 different sources for my 9N and both needed to be modified to work right. Yours worked right out of the box? Could you tell me where you bought it?

 

[kriskaudio]

(quoted from post at 19:02:03 06/25/19)
I've purchased that switch twice now from 2 different sources for my 9N and both needed to be modified to work right. Yours worked right out of the box? Could you tell me where you bought it?

I bought it on Amazon. There it is labeled as "9N11450B One New Push Button Starter Switch Made to Fit Ford/New Holland Tractor 2N 9N 86531629"
It came in a box that says "Atlantic Quality Parts" And another part number on the box says "Starter Switch 1100-0975."
Hope that helps. They sell them here on YT as well. In the 9n parts section you want the one that is the "Restoration Quality."

Hope that helps.

 

[ScoutB]

(quoted from post at 12:24:54 06/26/19)

(quoted from post at 19:02:03 06/25/19)
I've purchased that switch twice now from 2 different sources for my 9N and both needed to be modified to work right. Yours worked right out of the box? Could you tell me where you bought it?

I bought it on Amazon. There it is labeled as "9N11450B One New Push Button Starter Switch Made to Fit Ford/New Holland Tractor 2N 9N 86531629"
It came in a box that says "Atlantic Quality Parts" And another part number on the box says "Starter Switch 1100-0975."
Hope that helps. They sell them here on YT as well. In the 9n parts section you want the one that is the "Restoration Quality."

Hope that helps.

Thanks. I bought the first one here and it lasted about 2 years. The last one came from a seller on Ebay. Both were a bit too short and I had to epoxy a washer on the end to get them to work.