Fuel Pump issue? 67 2000

[Mattoney01]

Good evening everyone,

My tractor is blowing white smoke from the stack. I ve replaced all 3 fuel injectors and it didn t help. I ve tried to adjust the timing on the pump and that hasn t helped. When you start the tractor in the building your eyes will begin to burn fairly quickly from the unburnt diesel fuel.

From my research I come across two more common problems it could be: bad injector(s) or lack of compression. Since I replaced all 3 injectors I feel pretty confident that it s likely not the issue. I haven t done a compression test so that s possibly the problem, however, the tractor really doesn t show signs of poor compression. A compression test will be happening soon.

For the sake of argument let s say neither the injectors or compression is the problem. That leaves the pump right? What could be causing this issue within the pump? The previous owner said the pump was rebuilt but I don t know why it was, how extensive the rebuild was or if it even was rebuilt. I don t want to continue to run the tractor with this problem and potentially create a bigger problem. Sorry for the long post. Any help/guidance would be much appreciated!

Forgot to mention it’s a CAV style pump.

This post was edited by Mattoney01 on 02/09/2023 at 04:19 pm.

 

[Bern]

How does it start in cold weather? If it starts good, compression is not the issue. Most likely a timing
advance issue in the pump. You said you tried to change the timing, which direction did you go with it,
advance or retard? Or both? How far?

 

[Mattoney01]

It doesn t have any issues with a cold start. If it s really cold out it takes some cranks but otherwise it fires up fairly quickly.

I ve tried in both directions but to be fair I don t really think I ve given this a solid effort. I ve tried a couple times leaving the fuel lines on and by doing that you re not really able to move it much. I did disconnect the fuel lines once and advanced the pump. I When I got it back together she started but was running terribly. I don t know if it was just air in the lines or what but I shut it down pretty quick. I thought I bled everything as much as possible but maybe not.

After that test I reset everything and fought with a fuel leak out of one of the fuel lines. I like to never got it to stop leaking and after that I just stopped with it.

Please forgive my ignorance Bern but if I move the timing mark on the pump up that should advance the timing correct? That was the direction I moved it when it was running poorly.

 

[Bern]

To advance the timing you want to pull the top of the pump toward you. I use a big channel locks to rotate
the pump - try grabbing it in the back where the lines are. Go two or three notches from zero and report
back.

 

[Mattoney01]

(quoted from post at 18:33:10 02/09/23) To advance the timing you want to pull the top of the pump toward you. I use a big channel locks to rotate
the pump - try grabbing it in the back where the lines are. Go two or three notches from zero and report
back.

Ah ok. Gee no wonder she was running rough when I rotated it away from me! Thanks Bern, I ll try that and report back tomorrow.

 

[Mattoney01]

(quoted from post at 18:33:10 02/09/23) To advance the timing you want to pull the top of the pump toward you. I use a big channel locks to rotate
the pump - try grabbing it in the back where the lines are. Go two or three notches from zero and report
back.

Bern, I was able to advance the pump 2 notches and I can tell a noticeable difference. It s idling much smoother and not smoking near as bad. When I first started it after rotating the pump it smoked for a bit but once I got the engine warm dragging my blade the smoke cleared up. I wouldn t say it went away completely but I sure didn t notice much if it was smoking. What a difference that made. Thank you Bern for the guidance.

 

[Bern]

Something is wrong inside of your injection pump then, it is not auto advancing as it should. By rights
you should take it off and have it looked at. If not, don't go too far on the manual advance. If a little
is good, more is not necessarily better.

 

[Check Break]

(quoted from post at 17:47:24 02/11/23) Something is wrong inside of your injection pump then, it is not auto advancing as it should. By rights you should take it off and have it looked at. If not, don't go too far on the manual advance. If a little is good, more is not necessarily better.

Can the piston be installed backwards in the Auto Advance Housing or will it work either way???

 

[Bern]

That would be a question for pumpman or dieseltech. I don't work on those pumps on a daily basis like they do.

 

[Mattoney01]

(quoted from post at 22:30:20 02/11/23) That would be a question for pumpman or dieseltech. I don't work on those pumps on a daily basis like they do.

I ve spoke to a gentleman who has a 4000 with the Rossamaster fuel pump. He was having this exact problem after he took his pump off and rebuilt it himself. What he found was he installed a shaft on governor fork backwards so his governor wasn t working properly.

Something I should have mentioned in the original post is on my pump the paint on the flange itself where the timing marks are is wore off and I can t see the factory timing marks. You can see where someone else transcribed a mark on the pump and that mark has always been set to 0 on the plate. But, I ve always had my problem since I ve own the tractor as well (I ve owned it a year next month).

I guess the only way for me to know 100% is to take your advice Bern and get the pump looked at. For all I know maybe the rotation I done placed the pump back to 0. I m using the mark that was transcribed on the pump by someone else so who knows. Again thanks everyone

 

[Bern]

Another way to tell whether or not your advance is working is with a diesel timing light, which I have and
use on occasion for situations exactly like yours. Unfortunately it's not exactly a common tool. Some
companies sell adapters that clamp on the #1 injection line that create a pulse so you can use a timing
light for a gas engine, assuming you have a gas timing light that you can dust off.

 

[Eman85]

Bern, what triggers your timing light? I've used meters that were triggered by removing the glow plug which our tractors don't have.

 

[Bern]

It's called a piezoelectric sensor, something similar to the one in the link below. It clamps onto the #1
injection line. Mine reports to a box that flashes a conventional-looking timing light. Said box also
displays RPM, as well as allows you to offset electronically the timing of the light to work on those
engines that only have a TDC mark instead of a degreed damper.
Piezoelectric sensor

 

[Eman85]

OK it takes the vibration from the pulse of the fuel and turns it to an electric current. Same principle as a barbeque lighter or knock sensor.

 

[Mattoney01]

(quoted from post at 07:45:11 02/12/23) Another way to tell whether or not your advance is working is with a diesel timing light, which I have and
use on occasion for situations exactly like yours. Unfortunately it's not exactly a common tool. Some
companies sell adapters that clamp on the #1 injection line that create a pulse so you can use a timing
light for a gas engine, assuming you have a gas timing light that you can dust off.

I ll have to look into that. Here s a picture of my pump. I can t tell where the mark should be on the pump itself. That blue mark is something someone else transcribed so who knows what this pump is actually set to at the moment. The blue mark is placed just above the 2nd notch.

 

[Bern]

I'm not sure what you're referring to as the blue mark, however the factory pump mark is that nice straight
perpendicular line going clear across the flange of the pump. It's plain as day to me.

 

[Mattoney01]

(quoted from post at 19:25:09 02/12/23) I'm not sure what you're referring to as the blue mark, however the factory pump mark is that nice straight
perpendicular line going clear across the flange of the pump. It's plain as day to me.
<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto147343.jpg>

You just pointed to the exact blue line I m talking aboutIt s hard to see in the picture but it s not straight across at all and it s obvious when you see it in person that someone has done that themselves. The only area of the pump where the paint is wore off substantially is in the area the timing mark should be. It s definitely been messed with.

 

[Bern]

Either I need to get my eyes checked, or else that's one heck of an optical illusion, because it sure looks
like a factory mark to me. If you're convinced that it's not a factory line, then that gives more weight to
consider pulling the pump off and at a minimum having it benched timed and re-marked. If it was an inline
pump you could do that on the engine, but a rotary pump is quite a bit more work in that regard.

 

[Mattoney01]

(quoted from post at 07:03:17 02/13/23) Either I need to get my eyes checked, or else that's one heck of an optical illusion, because it sure looks
like a factory mark to me. If you're convinced that it's not a factory line, then that gives more weight to
consider pulling the pump off and at a minimum having it benched timed and re-marked. If it was an inline
pump you could do that on the engine, but a rotary pump is quite a bit more work in that regard.

Well I was convinced but now I m not so sure!! I think the best plan of attack would be to get it looked at by someone who knows for sure. I appreciate the guidance on this. It s very much appreciated.