%#*! Fuel System

[John Schmincke]

Regarding a 47 2N side mount 6 volt totally stock w/sherman up & down ( thanks Bruce )

I asked about 2 months ago regarding sediment bowls. You guys gave a lot of advice & pics even, really a great group here and I thank you. Turns out, the original tank was crudded inside, gas came out looking like orange juice. A new tank, new fuel line, new filters and 2 new sediment bowls later, still wont start. Got air, spark I can even see mid day with sunglasses on. Open the carb bowl drain, 3-4 drops of gas come out. Discovered "I" misthreaded the fuel line into the sediment bowl. It was sucking air/restricting flow to the carb...and leaking down the side of the engine. Reason? that %#*! pipe holding the plug wires is in the way. If you read this far, I thank you but just wanted to give you the whole picture.
Now the question is, 2 center head bolts hold that pipe in place. I want to remove the 2 bolts and discard the pipe so the stock fuel line has no interference. Would removing the 2 bolts disturb the head gasket? I really dont want to pull the head for this.
The plan is when the new bowl, plug wires, fuel line arrive, I want to remove the bolts, remove the pipe and replace the bolts within minutes if they come off easily enough. I"ve been soaking them off & on for a year now. Whats you opinion?
And does anyone know what the torque would be?

Plan B would be to just cut the 2 brackets and not disturb the bolts but Id like to do something cleaner that that.

Thanks in advance, and have a safe holiday!!
John

 

[R Geiger]

Normally a 47 2n would have a front mount not a side mount. side mounts usually do not have the tubes for the plug wires.

That said, I would cut the brackets and not try and take the headbolts out at this time. You could do it, but if you break one then you are in deeper right off.
head stud nut torque is 50-55 lb ft and head bolts torque is 65-70 lb ft.

 

[old]

Removing those bolts will not hurt a thing but if you have the sediment bowl turned the right way there is no need in doing that. Fuel line can be bent to fit by the way and your tractor most likely does not have the factory fuel line on it any how.

 

[John Schmincke]

Thanks old. Maybe it didnt have the original fuel line. Sure looked original with all the crud built up on it. It matched everything else on the tractor and was full of crud, same whatever that was in the tank. I think some kid put a bunch of mud in it sometime ago. The owner passed, tractor sat for a few years till his wife sold it.

Problem is buying a new fuel line now, you get what you get. I tried positioning the sediment bowl so the new line would work but the angle of the pipe holding the wires is in the way no matter how you turn the bowl. That thing was full of bugs, dust and who knows what else blew out of it when I put some air to it. Even still had the original coil wire in there making installing new plug wires a chore. You dont happen to know what I should retorque them to do you?
John

 

[John Schmincke]

Nice catch! I had to look twice but thats what I wrote. Its a front mount. My IH is a side mount. Thats what I was looking for, thank you. I guess your right. I could cut them for now and remove them later if the head ever has to come off. Your suggestion sounds safer though. It works fine now, dont disturb it.
You guys are quick! Thanks again,
John

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Do you have a sidemount engine in a 2N? Or was that a typo?

" Problem is buying a new fuel line now, you get what you get. " No, not if you get it & the sediment bowl from nnalert's or Dennis Carpenter.

Don't destroy what is OEM because you have poor quality replacement parts! Leave the plug wire conduit alone. If you remove it, then you will be having to tie up the plug wires as well as the main wiring harness. And, you stand a very good chance of getting a head bolt coolant leak.

Make 100% sure you have the correct OEM sediment bowl & fuel line. If you do, and you install them correctly, you will not need to remove the wire conduit.
50 Tips

 

[John Schmincke]

Hi Bruce, It was a typo. I had a side mount on a IH I had years ago...still sticks in my head.

From a post you made regarding sediment bowls, I remembered what you said and ordered 1 from nnalert. The wire conduit is angled such that it goes uphill from the battery to the front of engine. Where the sediment bowl screws into the tank, the pipe is directly in front of it. Theres no way to turn the bowl so the fuel line can get past it as the pipe is barely 2 1/4 inches away from the bowl. I mean, if I were to remove the pipe, it would hang in the garage. I dont throw anything away I take off the tractor except that steering wheel. That thing was like steering a cactus. In case I pass and the next owner wants all the pieces.
John

 

[John Schmincke]

Bruce, Are you referring to Dennis with the Ford restoration website?
John

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Here you go!
Dennis Carpenter

 

[Bruce (VA)]

This is a complete OEM set-up. Note the clearance between the bowl & conduit.

50 Tips

 

[John Schmincke]

Bruce, I just found Dennis Carpenters site, I didnt know about him before.
Nice! If the fuel can go uphill over the conduit and flow properly is fine but looking on Carpenters site, The fuel line shown is the same as I bought twice from this site. Straight with no bends ( other than the one over the head and to the carb ) going straight to the sediment bowl. If I had a way to bend the line, I could make it work but I dont have that tool....yet maybe.
John

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Sounds to me that you have the wrong fuel line. The correct line is not straight. The link below goes to the correct line, p/n 9N-9282-A
Dennis Carpenter

 

[John Schmincke]

Yea, Thats the same one I saw. See how the line is straight after the bend to go over the head and staright to the bowl? Thats the exact same line I bought from this site.

 

[John Schmincke]

The pic you supplied has a line that comes out of the bowl and goes up & over the conduit. If I could recreate a line like that, the conduit could stay as far as Im concerned.

 

[old]

I will warn you if you cut that tube/bracket you may find in a few years that you had not since those things are getting hard to find since so many have been trashed over the years

 

[old]

When I replace the fuel line I use brake line. It is easy to bend any way you need it and the cost os pretty low also. You do need to make sure you get a piece that is long enough and most of the time it will be a bit to long but making it work is still easy BTDT many times

 

[John Schmincke]

old, Thats interesting. Did you flare the ends? I mean Im assuming you had to cut one end at least and dress it? And I guess if its that soft, it would flare pretty easily. The fuel line I bought was pretty rigid. I tried to bend it carefully but it seemed to give to a point where it felt like it wanted to crimp if I took it to where I needed it.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

You will need a double flaring tool that works on steel.

I still haven't figured out why the OEM line & sediment bowl won't work. Can you post a picture?

Removing the wire conduit (and then having to rig some wire tie downs) or making a fuel line (which means buying a flaring tool if you don't have one) seems like a lot of wasted effort if the OEM parts will work.

 

[R Geiger]

This the fuel line and sediment bowl on my 8N which I got not very long ago from this site. There would be lot of room for the tube which the 8n does not use. note tie wraps on plug wires.

 

[John Schmincke]

Okay, let me see if I can get a pic uploaded. Thats just it though, the original parts are fine except right there at the sediment bowl. Imagine this, only way I can see to use the OEM without bending it would to be drill a 1/2inch hole through the conduit so the fuel line would pass to the sediment bowl. I mean, its right there! Now, if the conduit brackets were bent sometime ( which they dont appear to be ) I could understand, but if I pushed against the conduit towards the gen side and bent the brackets over and down some putting the conduit closer to the top of the head, the OEM fuel line might work. It would still be tight though. Let me see if I can find to upload one.

 

[John Schmincke]

not the best, battery is almost dead. if you need something more clear, the battery is charging for a bit. GEEES......lets see if that worked

 

[John Schmincke]

seems I can only get one in at a time.

 

[John Schmincke]

trying it again

 

[KL-VA]

(quoted from post at 20:12:26 05/30/11) Im assuming you had to cut one end ....

You can buy brake line tubing in straight lengths already crimped and just bend it to fit, but I'm with Bruce, the correct part should have the bends to go over the tube and fit. Flow isn't an issue because the carb fitting is always down-hill from the tank regardless of any bends the line makes to get there.
KL

 

[John Schmincke]

Thanks KL, that sounds reasonable. I was concerned about flow but I didnt realize the fuel line was cross threaded, letting air in and gas out...on the engine. So even with a hump in the line, gas will flow. I guess my IH was so dang simple, it only gave me 3 issues in 30+ years. Really simple fixes.
John

 

[old]

I buy the brake line a ta bit to long and NEVER cut it but do bend it so it does what I need it to do and I'm done with it. Had one on a tractor once that I got way to long and I bent it around a paint can to make a loop and had some one ask what that loop was for and I said to cool the gas down before it went in the carb and the guy believed me LOL

 

[John Schmincke]

That fuel line came from YT with that bend?

I bought the line, sediment bowl assy and specified for a 2N. My line was straight after the bend over the head. I bought 2 of these lines, both were the same. First one I butchered and attached rubber fuel line to it cause I wanted an inline filter since my tank was so contaminated. I decided not to argue with it and bought a new tank, another new fuel line, another new sediment bowl. That line you have looks like it would work on mine just right. Maybe I should give them a call and swap mine out.
John

 

[Bruce (VA)]

' Maybe I should give them a call and swap mine out."

Yep, that's what I'd do, because that line is identical to the line in my picture. If your line does not look like ours, you have the wrong line.
50 Tips

 

[John Schmincke]

You have a point there. Probably wont be too many years before these tractors in original shape will start bringing what an old jag fetches. Not the XJS though. I could tell the wife im investing in upping her comfort level after im gone!!!!!! Great thinking old! Thank you!!

 

[John Schmincke]

Sounds like you were just short of telling him your brewing!!!!

 

[R Geiger]

(quoted from post at 06:49:34 05/31/11) Sounds like you were just short of telling him your brewing!!!!

Just wondering if the tank that you installed is identical to the old tank? Or maybe the mounting is different. This site shows the same fuel line for 9n,2, and 8n. so it should have the bend on the end like mine and Bruces does

 

[John Schmincke]

Well, a pic is worth it. Mine does not look like yours or KL in VA. You guys have the one I need. KL said he got his not long ago. I got mine not long ago. Maybe they crossed our order.....?

Anyway, sounds like Im on the right track. Thanks Bruce and everyone. This has been a great day to chat. Im self employed and gotta get back to it...fathers only son so even though I hitchhiked to Annapolis to sign up for Nam in 69, they never acknowledged my effort. I do as others do appreciate our freedom and the effort ( is a small word really ) all of you put forth to keep our nation balanced. Sorry to hear Alabama has forgotten, Tallediga anyway, but Arlington VA is strong with the bikers and all who showed up on crutches, wheelchairs etc. God Bless them all!!!
John

 

[John Schmincke]

RG, The tank is identical...BUT...it appears to be powder coated and that sealed off the tiny vent hole on top of the bubble. I didnt want to drill the tank so I got a vented cap. Theres a indentation in the top of the tank for the first spark plug wire to go up and over & has a nice fit...top rad hose has good clearance, bolt holes to mount it to the hood were placed properly, or to answer your question, the mounting was the same as the one that came out of there. In my opinion...$200+ tanks I saw but decided to go with this one was a good choice. As I looked around, prices were all over the place really. Mine came double boxed UPS, that is the tank was in its original box and I guess they put that box in another. The fuel line thats given me so much grief is the one pictured here. Bruce created a monster when he asked for a pic!
Have a nice rest of the weekend,
John

 

[John Schmincke]

Shoot! all part of getting older I guess, caught myself again. R Geiger mentioned getting his fuel line not long ago, not KL in VA, anyway, thought Id clear that up for what its worth.
John

 

[BillM (OH)]

First time I priced an oem power steering line on my 861 at CNH, I went to Napa and bought a brake line and a tubing bender and have used them ever since for power steering lines and fuel lines - IIRC total cost was about $11.

 

[Caryc]

Harbor Freight has various small and cheap tubing benders. Why not just buy one of them and bend the tube where it needs it?

I'm sure Home Depot or Lowes has them also.

One more thing. I know it's common sense but just take it as a suggestion.

Screw the fitting into the sediment bowl first, then worry about the carb end of it. This is true especially for me since my FEL frame is right in the way there and I have to do it by feel at the sediment bowl.

I hate those type fittings especially when you can't see them directly. It's hard to tell if you have it started in straight. I always say a prayer first before starting with the wrench.

 

[John Schmincke]

Harbor Freight has various small and cheap tubing benders. Why not just buy one of them and bend the tube where it needs it?

Not nec. The fuel line sent to me apparently was the wrong one. Should I need a tubing bender in the future, Ill keep that in mind, thanks.
I plan to start with the sediment bowl first as it is the most awkward of the 2 fittings. You apparently are in a good position, I have more important things to pray about. This is only a mechanical thing.
Have a good one,
John

 

[John Schmincke]

Thats good news. I wonder how long ago that was though. Ill stop by Napa tomorrow and see...if the price is right, Ill pick one up just to have in the tool box. Thanks for the heads up.
John

 

[old]

Not long ago there was another guy on here looking for one of those tubes. I know who it is and I also told him I had one ot 2 on hand so he is getting one from me. Yep parts for some of the old tractors are getting harder and harder to find and many you find are from China and do not fit well

 

[John Schmincke]

I know what you mean! There was a guy looking for a original tool box for a 2N. Didnt matter what condition but I kept quiet. Not that I plan to use mine. Its in the basement holding every nut, bolt, ignition switch, washers, cotter pins etc from day 1 it looks like. Thats not a treasure by any means but it came with my tractor and it will stay with it.

 

[old]

Ya over the years I have looked for a part of piece for one of my many tractors and it took me years to find a set of side curtains for my 1950 Oliver 77. That is one reason I do not scrap any of the old tractors I have that are to far gone to fix but hey sooner or later some one will need a part and if I have it good for both him and me

 

[John Schmincke]

You got that right! Speaking of parts...I just discovered I am missing a bracket that goes on the generator of a 2N. Its the bracket that bolts directly to the gen casing & has the bolt with spring to adjust the tension of the generator to keep the belt tight. Do you have one of those you might want to sell?
John

 

[old]

I will try to remember to look tomorrow to see if I still have one. By the way my e-mail is always open here so if I forget you might remind me. The last few days between the weather the neighbor and all I have been a bit on the busy side. LOL Had so much rain here in the last couple weeks my food plots are a month behind

 

[John Schmincke]

Okay old, will do. I appreciate that. Theres a message on this page I started and Dick M responded to with a picture of the one he has. I guess thats what Im looking for...not sure but I suppose you would know. Sounds like you have your hands full. Good luck with that and Ill stay tuned.
Thanks old,
John

 

[old]

Saw that post a bit ago so I know better what to look for LOL. Ya back when I could do a full days work I could keep up but now it seems like the harder I try to do what needs to be done the more things have to be done so I never get ahead I just keep getting behind more and more. LOL I wonder if there might be one on this 8N parts machine I have or maybe on one of the many old generators I have laying around

 

[Ladderman4]

Need [i:df8fbb0b77]that tube[/i:df8fbb0b77] if you took it off and still have it.
Thanks, ladderman4

 

[Johnschmincke]

That fuel line you got from this site. Do you happen to have a part # for it from the sales receipt? I just called and Jeff tells me the line I have is the only one they have. According to the parts manual this is the one my tractor takes and this is the one they've been selling for umpteen years. Never a dull moment!
Thanks,
John

 

[John Schmincke]

Its still on the engine. If I ever find the right fuel line, it wont be in the way anymore. People here advize to not disturb the head bolts just to remove the tube so I thought Id leave it alone. I can give you measurements from mine if you like. That is, if you think to fab one.
John