G188D case engine

[J R]

Need some help please.

I have a case 580b back hoe tractor I bought without a fuel pump. Someone took it out and knew what they were doing.

Number on engine is G188D. This engine doesn’t have a plug at flywheel for timing mark or DC. It is on the front crankshaft pulley.

My problem is, when I put engine on DC the two dimples on came gear are off from pointer by four teeth. When I align cam shaft dimples with pointer, my DC on crankshaft pulley is off by almost 12 degrees.

How do I put these gears at to install pump gear?

Thanks in advance for any help. Jay

 

[mEl]

line both the gear marks with the pointer , forget about the TDC marks on the front pulley at this point, as long as the internal timing is good you can do the pump timing after the engine is buttoned up. I have never seen a B without flywheel timing marks, if it a TC power shuttle there is a plug on the bell housing up behind the stater at about 2 O Clock that takes a 1 inch socket, if dry clutch there is a big snap out plug at 5 O clock under the tractor on the starter side. A B should time at 8 BTDC.

 

[J R]

Thank you so very much for the information. This engine has a plate on starter side and that’s where I got the numbers. I’ve looked all around for that plug and it just doesn’t seem to have one like my other 580.

I will line the 2 marks up with pointer and align the pump dimple with pointer and get this thing running tomorrow.

Thank you again and I will let you know how it works out. J

 

[J R]

MEI

I found the hole in flywheel housing, it had mud in it and I had to use a hammer and sharp punch to get it out.

When I put the flywheel on DC it matches the crank shaft pulley on the front. NOW, I can turn number one intake push rod but not the exhaust push rod. The two dimples on cam shaft gear are not even close.
Now if I set the two dimples to where idler pointer is between the two, my exhaust push rod can’t be turned at all.

I set it up like you said before I found that hole and timing marks on flywheel and it wouldn’t start at all using a gas soaked rag on intake. I even tried either and nothing. I drain all the lines before trying gas on a rag and made sure they were bled Pump is aligned and went right in with no problem. Engine seems to never have gone into to me.

If I have engine on DC, and dimples are at 1 or 1:30 not aligned with idler pointer.

Suggestions?

Thanks. J

 

[Jim.ME]

It sounds like #1 is not TDC on compression. Turn the engine over one revolution, then check the timing marks and push rods. Timing marks will line up every rotation but a cylinder of a four stroke engine is only TDC compression every other rotation.

 

[J R]

Jim, I turned it one revolution and the push rods are loose and flywheel DC and crank shaft pulley are on DC.

The two dimples for camshaft gear are not close at all. I’ve turned it both directions off of DC and can’t see them. I’ve enclosed a picture of what pump gear is located mark now, at 11 o’clock.

Just noticed what looks like a punch mark on cam gear, only one mark and it’s aligned with idler gear sheet metal point. Do I align the pump gear with that mark and see what happens? Just maybe?

Who ever stole the original pump took the time to remove the gear also. I bought the whole tractor for $1000. Good front tires but no backhoe on it. They cut the oil lines for the hoe and looks like they didn’t know how to remove the back part and knocked some pins out. This one has a cab and my original one did not just open. Worker ran it out of oil it froze up.

Thanks again for your help. J

 

[Jim.ME]

I can't explain the marks. The main thing I was trying to do was to get you at the top of the #1 compression stroke where it needs to be to start. In your earlier post where you described the exhaust pushrod being tight and the intake lose, that indicated it was at the upper end of the exhaust stroke, a revolution out.

One other question is are you rotating the engine in the direction it runs? You should turn it only in that direction to keep any slack in things, like gears, in the right place. Standing beside the right side of the engine the fan should turn counterclockwise. If standing in front of the radiator looking at the fan it turns clockwise.

 

[J R]

Yes and thank you. Im turning it in the direction it runs. Im going to try changing the pump gear in the morning and try and figure out if that works. I know the books say to align the two dimples up with idler gear sheet metal point even that tube thing on TV says same thing but when you do the DC can’t be seen on flywheel or crank shaft pulley. I know it’s early in Colorado right now but had surgery a week ago and the wife said enough for today . I’ll let you know tomorrow how it goes.

Thanks again J

 

[mEl]

Once the internal marks are aligned with the pointer put the cover on and forget trying to get them aligned at TC pointer on damper. once the pushrods are both loose on #1 TDC, set the EXTERNAL pointer at 8 degrees BTDC and turn the pump till the internal marks are aligned. You are worrying to much about the pointer and marks agreeing with the Damper TDC! Personally, I would use the flywheel marks, the flywheel should be marked TDC O, 15 deg after and I think 35 Deg BTDC, dont worry about the internal and external marks aligning, they never will! That is an internal cam gear to pump gear timing and has nothing to do with the final BTDC setting. I am sure that you got the two dots lined up on the pump internal drive to pump driveshaft. Once you have it timed as I said it can be time consuming to get the system bled. Please do not try to overthink it. If you are sure you have the pump and shaft internal dots matching do not change the pump gear position, it is right, unless you have something weird like a bad pump gear woodruf key or something it has to be right. If you want, drop me a phone number by PM.