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Gas or Diesel?

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Cowboy2005

Member
The post about the allis 170 gas brought to mind a question I've been meaning to ask for quite some time. Is gas or diesel better for feild work? I'm think diesel is better for feild work and gas is a better loader tractor? By all means correct me if I'm wrong!
-Garrett
 
steam, gas, diesel, now i suppose they are working on electric tractors. talking about all electric vehicles in 10-15 years.
 
Diesel is a better field tractor and you think gas is a better loader tractor, can you enlighten me as to how you come to that conclusion?
 
Yes, and it may look like this:
cvphoto63714.jpg
 
Many early diesels were hard starting and troublesome. Fuel was cheap, gas was the way to go. But that's in the past. My wish for an AC 175 gas is simply so the tractor would be all AC. The Perkins 4.248 is much more efficient, no matter what you're doing.
 
Diesel in the field. Better torque and better fuel economy. For a loader tractor in a cold climate it depends what you like. A gas loader tractor doesnt smoke up a building if it is used inside much. A gas loader tractor does not have gelling problems and usually starts better in cold weather. A gas tractor needs tune ups. A diesel just runs and runs and runs. A diesel loader tractor usually has better low end torque for putz around loader work. And again the diesel affords better fuel economy.
 
I read this today and about puked. $40k for a little "buzzer". I guess someone who doesn't need a real tractor would like it....if there was a $20k tax credit. Wonder how long of an extension cord you would need if the juice ran out on the back forty? Maybe I'll be gone before these are all you can use:-(
electric tractor
 
It's funny how a subject can get completely off topic isn't it?As for the old gas vs. diesel question,to put it plainly there is a reason why all heavy equipment is diesel.Now keep in mind we are talking pre-emission equipment.The diesel makes a better loader tractor AND a better field tractor,and the only point someone will try and argue is that after 60 years their diesel starts hard in the cold.Well,not if it has been properly maintained,HELLO! Diesels are built so much more robust,and they run at half the rpms as a gasser yet make twice the torque and last twice as long.There is also no comparison the way a diesel will lug like a locomotive,and they are ideal for loader work because of all that low end power,which is also what makes them such good field tractor.They will just keep pulling,they do much better on fuel,and are much easier to work on once you know what your doing.Now that being said,I use diesels for real work and gassers for puttin' around moving trailers and such that I know won't be run very long because diesels need to be ran up to temperature before shutting off.Also anybody who thinks electric tractors will be successful obviously don't know what it's all about.

Rock
 
I am continually amazed that media claims this battery powered stuff is zero emmision. How are the batteries made, with what? How are they charged and is the infrastructure capable of doing all the work that is presently done with Diesel fuel and gasoline? Not to mention you can't manufacture 100's of thousands of wind turbines zero emmision? Maybe I just ask all the wrong questions.
 
That might work in Brooklyn for the horse face. I get a kick out of the picture of the heavy mine truck. If that isn’t misleading? But seriously, train locomotives have been driven by electric for a long time. I’m sure you noticed the cord with the plug hanging out as they go by when you’re waiting on one.
 
Hydrogen powered fuel cells will generate the power for electric cars/trucks in the future. These onboard fuel cells burn the hydrogen and the exhaust is water vapour. The hydrogen molecules can be stripped off of natural gas the most efficiently. Auto makers are already building prototype models.
 
There are trains and busses that run totally electric and have been for years. Issue is limited infrastructure (IE catenary line) to power them.

Outfit local to me builds city busses. When they take the electric ones on a shake down cruise, there is a diesel generator pulled by (pushing?) the bus.
 
I think it would interesting to put an appropriately rated Ecoboost in a tractor. I bet it would give the diesels a run for their money. A lot has changed in engine technology since the last gas farm tractors were built. I’ll remind all the nay sayers that there have been thousands of industrial gas powered tractors built and still are today. Aka forklifts.
 
What I laugh about is what all these people who push electric vehicles fail to tell you. Electric vehicles leave a larger carbon foot print then gas or diesel. I've read where 500,000lbs of earth have to be moved to get enough product to make the batteries for on car. What moves it? Excavators, loaders, trucks, all fossil fueled machines. Then it has to be refined, fossil fueled plant. Finished product has to be shipped to manufacturing, fossil fueled trucks. Manufacturing, fossil fueled. Finished car shipped to dealer, fossil fueled truck. Then when it's purchased, the owner has to recharge the battery. Fossil fueled generating plant or engine in the car. I saw a picture of a charging station in Ca. Car was plugged in, the cable ran to a generator which was ran buy a diesel engine. Electric vehicles save the enviroment BS!
 
Gas is fine for lighting brush piles and such. diesels for the rest of the working engines. Now for the hydrogen fuel cels. The Hindenburg all over again. For the electric combine just plug it in to the fence post over night and good to go in the morning. Just like your phone. So now you eliminate 70% of the power supply with no oil or coal powered power plants then want to use more electric vehicles ,be it cars tractors or what have you. Boy I'll just jump right on to that train. Most all the frieght trains are diesel electric using diesel generators to generate the juice for the electric motors on the wheels. Huge torque generation to break out and pull that size load.
 
Ken-you are absolutely right,and that has been my argument all these years.It is really so that people think they are doing the world good and buy these electric vehicles,when in reality that will use even more fossil fuels to make,then it would to just let us all drive our diesels around.

Rock
 
Some of you guys really need to wake up and smell the coffee. Electric is coming. plain as the nose on your face. And if "Good Americans" like you keep cryin, pissin, moanin and dragging your feet,Murica is going to have it's lunch eaten by China!
A few of you are going to have to do with out vehicles of any kind. You won't buy a Government Motors vehicle because of the bail outs, you won't buy a FICA because it is a foreign owned country, and now your stalwart Ford has stabbed you in the back.by loudly and vehemently admitting that global warming is real and they are going to start pointing their product line towards eventual all electric vehicles.
Woe is me Woe is me!
 
Stay tuned.

They are coming, mostly due to the federales.

Folks are simply fed up with the Tier (whatever) nonsense.

Dean
 
Bingo, Larry!

Most in media and government don't know s**t from apple butter and don't care. It's all about careers (theirs).

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 20:26:35 11/20/20) The post about the allis 170 gas brought to mind a question I've been meaning to ask for quite some time. Is gas or diesel better for feild work? I'm think diesel is better for feild work and gas is a better loader tractor? By all means correct me if I'm wrong!
-Garrett
Click to expand...

Spark ignition engines are better where cold starting , reliability , low cost , lack of jelled fuel . While being used in light duty and intermittent operation .
Cars , light trucks , small construction equipment , off road sport vehicles etc .
 
(quoted from post at 06:55:00 11/21/20) Hydrogen powered fuel cells will generate the power for electric cars/trucks in the future. These onboard fuel cells burn the hydrogen and the exhaust is water vapour. The hydrogen molecules can be stripped off of natural gas the most efficiently. Auto makers are already building prototype models.
Click to expand...

What is the source of hydrogen ? How is this hydrogen going to be transported , stored and carried on vehicles ?
The only practical method to transport and store fuel is as a liquid in a non pressurized tank .
 
Where is all this electricity going to come from? Shutting down coal and oil fired electric plants will create a California type situation all over the USA,so how do electric vehicles get charged up? All electric vehicles is a pipe dream now for those sitting around smoking weed and talking trash.The way China will eat our lunch is for the USA to abandon coal and oil as energy sources that we have a huge supply of both.
 
(quoted from post at 20:36:21 11/20/20) Here's a question for you: How many gasoline powered tractors bigger than a lawnmower do they manufacture these days?

That should paint a pretty clear picture for you.
Click to expand...

Check the price of diesel vs gasoline around the entire world , instead of just down at the local gas station . Dave $12 US on a 20 gallon fill in Italy . Well guess if customers are going to purchase gas or diesel ?
Small diesels exist in light duty application because the customer wants to burn fuel that costs less.
If Tier IV emissions had existed in 1970 instead of now . The small diesel would not exist .
Tier V emissions will require even more stringent emissions equipment . Possibly even a change from #2 diesel to Lighter , cleaner burning kerosene will be required to meet tailpipe specs. btw Tier V emissions are on the way if a certain party wins .
If Direct injection gas 4020s and Tier IV diesel 4020s had existed in 1970 . What direction do you think the light and medium duty market would have went ?
Comparing high powered HD equipment operating at full power 24/7 to small equipment is apples and oranges . Although , have you seen the size and power of spark ignition engines compressing natural gas for pipelines .
mvphoto65226.jpg


mvphoto65227.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 08:29:16 11/21/20) Why is mother deere playing with electric?
It's gonna happen and they'll run circles around diesel
Click to expand...

Manufactures roll out an electric tractor for a feel good publicity
Photo Op .
Go and lookup how many lithium batteries and cost of them to power a 200HP tractor for 8 hours . Also tell us the recharge time on your 100 or 200amp farm service .
btw what is your engineering background ?
 
I take "they are coming" to mean that the large gasoline tractor is going to be making a comeback?

Yeah, it's not like they'll ever figure out the diesel emissions, and gas emissions equipment was perfect right out of the box. SARCASM!

Seems nobody here remembers the 70's and the 80's, with the smog pumps and other emissions garbage that the EPA forced manufacturers to put on cars. HP output went from being measured in hundreds, to being measured in tens. Fuel economy from 20 to single digits. Oh and the unleaded gas and all the problems that brought along with it!

If manufacturers put half the time effort and dollars into coming up with technology to comply with the emissions rules, instead of paying lawyers to fight-fight-fight the EPA right up to the last minute and LOSE EVERY TIME, they would not have to foist these untested last minute solutions on the public.
 

Have been around since the late 1980s when vehicles HP levels returned and fuel efficiency improved .
Suggest that you lookup the the HP and fuel efficiency of a 6.2 Chev since 2013 in either the Camero or the pickup application .
How is your diesel chainsaw , weed eater, snowmobile ,
ATV , outboard ,
Portable generator , manlift
and lawn mower operating ?
 
(quoted from post at 19:59:19 11/20/20) I won't say her name but her initials are AOC. If she has her way, tractors in the future will be run on battery with a solar panel on the roof to charge it.
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Won't need any tractors because all food will come from a store where they get the produce and canned food out of trucks and no animals are harmed to produce the meant.
 
You forgot about my diesel wristwatch. Been running since 1956 on #2 diesel due to my body warmth assisting in starting every morning. My left wrist has developed a
noticeable tremble but with the superior fuel efficiency of the diesel over gasoline or, for that matter, LP, I can accept that. (;>))
 
My fleet is new enough they all should last as long as I do if needed. Can always run on corn squeezins if necessary.

Considering what my cordless tools do at 30F, battery tech has a long way to go before it will be practical at -20F.
 
Perhaps one has to add a bit of imagination to the question. Maybe he's talking about running in the field all day long versus "loading" one load of cow manure and hauling it out to the field on a sub-zero day? Then I can see the advantage of gas over diesel for loader work. We had a neighbor who bought one of the first Farmall MDs around. He got it in the fall and used it to spread cow manure over winter. It ran maybe 30 minutes a day. By spring it would no longer turn over. They hooked another tractor to the belt pulley. Smoked the belt. Hauled it into town for an engine teardown to remove all the carbon.
 
The Diesels for small places and estate owners make no sense to me, much better electric or direct injection gasser. I find it hard to believe Diesel will be displaced on engines with constant heavy loads. They may transition to electric drive for better traction control but will have Diesel powerplant.
 
The best part is that this "40 hp" tractor can lift 1000 pounds with the 3 point. Or you can buy a $10,000 loader capable of lifting 1000 pounds. My 1941 Farmall M can lift more than with its 3 point.
 
Your electric car will work well until an EMP gets detonated then you are screwed anyway along with every car (gas or electric) that has a computer in it. Kind of like how electric lawn mowers are going to take over? I wouldn't take one if you paid me. They have very, very little POWER!
 
You are the one that needs to "wake up and smell the coffee."

Most cars prior to 1900 WERE electric. That technology was limited then and still is. First thing is the cost of production. Electric cars are EXPEN$IVE to manufacture. They also use many environmentally unfriendly materials like Lithium and copper.

Engineers and designers are jumping through hoops of fire trying to emulate basic comfort and safety things that we take for granted in internal combustion powered cars - like heaters and defrosters. Those "comforts" come at a price - using up the electricity that also provides fuel for operation.

Then there are the issues that go along with electric cars. Short range, long recharging times, and high initial cost. These issues are the main reasons that electric cars are not mainstream. A new electric car costs over twice what a comparable engine powered car does. An electric car takes a long time to recharge - not practical for a vacation trip or even a business trip. Then there is the limited availability of charging facilities. Then there is the short range - even shorter in hot or cold weather. I can drive over 300 miles in an SUV without needing to refuel. I can refuel in a few minutes.

One other thing - where do you think all of this electricity is going to come from? Oh, yeah. From that power plant with the big smokestacks over in the next county. Did you think that it came out of thin air?

You are the one that needs to wake up and smell the coffee, Pitch! Gasoline power is the gold standard which all other technologies are trying to emulate.
 
Pitch, I agree with you that electric is definitely the way of the future. The capabilities and potential of electric power trains are finally starting to be realized. Battery tech is not where it needs to be yet for affordability versus internal combustion power trains, but advances are coming rapidly. I'm looking forward to what develops in the field of electrics in the next 10 years.

As to the attitudes here, it's a waste of time to try to convince the Luddites here that there is better technology coming. Were it the 1910's, many here would be scoffing and mocking the Fordson, and insisting that farming with horses is the only way to farm.
 
Just because other technologies are not practical NOW, does not mean we should not be exploring them.

Gasoline was NOT practical initially. It was not produced widely in large quantities. There were no gas stations to distribute it. It was dangerous to handle. Yet, somehow, it became that "gold standard" that people speak of. Took a lot of years, and a lot of bucking the naysayers to make it work.
 
I have three 6.2 engines in half ton platforms.
My fuel mileage is no where near what the window sticker
says.
 
That's a bunch of malarky.An electronically controlled gasser is more reliable than a mechanical diesel????By the way,if you
can't figure out how to pour a pint of anti-gell in the tank,you probably shouldn't be driving.

Rock
 
Back in the 1970's everyone was supposed to be traveling in flying cars by the year 2000,predictions are just that some come to pass most don't.I'm not against electric vehicles but here and now and I'd say a lot more than 10 years into the future they won't
be practical for most people.No one wants to answer the 900 lb Gorilla question.Where is all this electricity coming from to run all these electric vehicles? No matter how good electric vehicles are if there isn't enough electricity they are useless.BTW a couple good teams of horses or a early Fordson,give me the teams I'll get my work done while you are still building a fire under it to get it started.
 
Can I get in on this? Looks like fun. Let's toss in an LP JD 4020 and a Diesel.....................sorry, Diesel wins hands down. BTDT.

On the Diesel ZTs, modern carbed gassers are extremely efficient these days but I have a 26 hp BS Vanguard, a 7000 22 hp Kohler (among others) and a 24 hp Diesel Branson little tractor, among others. Hands down the little tractor runs circles around them even though the gassers are pretty efficient.

61" gasser ZT runs in around 900#, cost $7k, gas about $1.75. 61" diesel runs 1300#, cost $13k, farm tax free diesel runs about the same. Takes a long time to make that overhead cost up in fuel savings. Will say the heavier ZT with the floating operators station and deluxe seat (Scag) does ride nice, but the 900# Ferris isn't all that bad either.

Did this gain anybody and headway? No. Then why post it? Dunno!! Just had the urge to toss my hat in the ring. You guys were having too much fun. Grin
 
(quoted from post at 22:01:00 11/21/20) That's a bunch of malarky.An electronically controlled gasser is more reliable than a mechanical diesel????By the way,if you
can't figure out how to pour a pint of anti-gell in the tank,you probably shouldn't be driving.

Rock
Click to expand...

Compare the DI gasser to the Tier IV and Tier V diesel .
You can not honestly compare a 2020 DI gasser with a 1990 diesel .
 
(quoted from post at 16:04:07 11/21/20) I have three 6.2 engines in half ton platforms.
My fuel mileage is no where near what the window sticker
says.
Click to expand...

Our 6.2 DI does better than the factory mpg ratings .
Depends how you drive it .
 
(quoted from post at 15:32:52 11/21/20) Pitch, I agree with you that electric is definitely the way of the future. The capabilities and potential of electric power trains are finally starting to be realized. Battery tech is not where it needs to be yet for affordability versus internal combustion power trains, but advances are coming rapidly. I'm looking forward to what develops in the field of electrics in the next 10 years.

As to the attitudes here, it's a waste of time to try to convince the Luddites here that there is better technology coming. Were it the 1910's, many here would be scoffing and mocking the Fordson, and insisting that farming with horses is the only way to farm.
Click to expand...

You and barnyardengineering need to explain to us how they are going to increase the energy density of batteries . At the same time explain how you are going to further reduce weight and reduce aerodynamic drag of vehicles .
Everything has a limit .
What element do you propose making batteries out of besides lithium ?
Battery powered equipment will always have heavy bulky batteries . Short range and long recharge times .
The laws of physics and chemistry can not be changed .
Just wondering what sort of engineering background you fellows have ?
It is all about energy density . Short of nuclear fission . The best storage of energy is a tank of #2 diesel , kerosene or gasoline .
 
Around here I demote a field tractor to loader work so my loader tractors are diesel. First was a 4020 now it's a JD 4430. Also I don't have to keep a barrel of gas on the farm.
 
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