Generator trouble

[Dorfi2]

Had my gen and voltage regulater repaired at a good shop and it was charging well on the guages when i picked it up but when instaled at a fast idle sits on zero ampa and at normal sit at abot 4 amp discharge..Now rev it up to 2500 or so and it may go to 10 amp charge...Tis is second trip to repair shop and now beleive something else going on..It is a ford 9n or 8n not sure but know the regulater can be a A or B and the repair shop was aware of thisNow when it goes to a 10 amp charge if the lights are turned on it will discharge so something wrong here//

..HELP

 

[Dean]

Does not sound abnormal if battery at or near full charge.

 

[Dorfi2]

at 2000 or so rpm it should at least hold its own..Also battery is down a bit from starting quite often

 

[Hemmjo]

This is why a volt meter it better than an amp meter for monitoring charging system performance.

You turn the switch on you instantly know the voltage of your battery. You crank the tractor, the voltage drops instantly, as it should, while the starter draws huge current from the battery. After starts and idles, the voltage comes back close to where it was before you ran the starter. As the engine speed increases the generator or alternator begins charging the voltage jumps up to the 13-14 range, you know it is charging. If the meter is above 14something is wrong with your regular and you are cooking your battery.

An amp meter can not give you all of that information.

I realize some some restore their tractors back to original condition. My old Ford 860 prefers to be out working. For those who want to keep your amp meter, you can always use a portable volt meter for trouble shooting situations like this one. Volt readings just give your more information.

You really ned voltage readings to trouble shoot this situation.

 

[Btzj02]

Some trouble shooting is required. I totally agree with using a volt meter to trouble shoot. A few years ago I replaced my voltage regulator with a cheap "new" one but I had similar performance to what you are experiencing. One of the trouble shooting things I did was to tap on the voltage regulator case with a small wrench or the handle of a screw driver. The amperage jumped up or down at every tap and I quickly learned that the voltage regulator was of poor quality. I decided to buy a good voltage regulator that cost double what the "new" ones are listed for on this site. My Amp meter and battery have performed as designed since.

 

[Eman85]

Only going to measure amp flow if there is amperage demand.
hook a voltmeter to the battery and take a reading with the tractor off. Start the tractor and take the reading. report your findings.

 

[Dorfi2]

(reply to post at 07:1WWee5:52 12/09/23)

eare using a volt meter

 

[Jim L WA]

I agree it sounds like it's not charging correctly. It tests okay at the repair shop, so I would suggest that you check to make sure your voltage regulator and generator have a good solid, clean ground. You mentioned that the repair shop repaired it. What did they repair? Did they just find that it was working okay on their bench? How about your fan belt tension or condition? Could it be slipping?
Keep us up to date.

 

[Dorfi2]

sO TAPP\\\/Sotapped regulater and went to 15 amp at fast idle and volts at battery 7 but cuts out and goes to discharge once in a while...Just touch voltage control with finger and takes off again an sometimes back to 3 or 4 amps..Tractor stopped battery reads 6.1 volts...For sure a bad voltage control probably some chinese junk...Anyone know a good quality nane...Thanks.

This post was edited by Dorfi2 on 12/09/2023 at 11:19 am.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 16:15:29 12/09/23) sO Anyone know a good quality nane...Thanks.

unfortunately, i'm not sure there is one at this point.

 

[Dave G9N]

(quoted from post at 19:03:47 12/09/23)

(quoted from post at 16:15:29 12/09/23) sO Anyone know a good quality nane...Thanks.

unfortunately, i'm not sure there is one at this point. Nothing from Tim yet? That's concerning.

So which generator do you have? Since the 9N10000A is very rare, I suspect that you are looking for a Sparex S.67125 regulator which is for an 8N10000A or B. I got one from NAPA. It is a replacement for the 8N10505C, It has an A circuit. If the generator is an 8N10000A and still has the third brush, you should remove the third brush. Service Bulletin 78 tells you how. If it is a 9N10000A, you may be out of luck. It is possible that a FAG-10505A regulator which is a B circuit 10-12A 6V regulator would work on the original small diameter 9N10000 generator. I would not try it without JMOR or Tim Daley saying that it is worth a shot. tractor parts asap carries both types

The Sparex S.67125 is not an exact replacement, but it works. The difference (I am out of my area here so take this as my opinion, not gospel) appears to be that it is made to regulate a higher amperage output generator, but that doesn't matter because the 8N10000A & B can't put out enough amps to hurt themselves. Again, don' put too much stock in my explanation. EDIT: Yesterdays has the regulator https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-8N_Voltage-Regulator_8N10505B.html

If it is an original 9N and has a regulator, that's a rare beast. Most of them had only a cutout. There was an 8N generator that required a regulator that might show up on a 2N with a front mount distributor. Not from the factory, but since I have one, it does happen.

9N10000A is as rare as hen's teeth and someone would probably want to buy it off you for more than it would cost for a newer better later model generator. It has a B circuit, and only puts out 7A. They were almost always replaced with a (marginally) higher output one wire A circuit generator with a cutout and no regulator.

The 8N10000A and B differ in that the A version has the adjustment screw and B doesn't have a third brush. Most 8N10000A were or should have been modified by removing the third brush, which makes them equivalent to an 8N10000B.

I would be letting Tim down if I neglected to mention that you need a tensioner to keep the belt tight. The early tractors apparently didn't have one so you constantly adjusted the belt tension if you wanted a working fan and generator.

This is from one of Tim's posts. May be one of JMOR's. The three possible generators would be the 9N10000, 8N10000A and 8N10000B.

This is the service bulletin. It is very simple to do.

This is my attempt to summarize the various generators, cutouts, regulators, etc. It is possible that all of the information is reasonably accurate. I found some discrepancies in the information available concerning things like amperage and barrel diameters. I have seen some Autolite regulators online for high prices.

There is more information (Tim's posts) and grasping for straws (my posts) in this thread:
https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1595707



This post was edited by Dave G9N on 12/15/2023 at 02:09 pm.

 

[Btzj02]

 

[Btzj02]

This guy is very knowledgable and interesting to talk to.

This picture shows the burned up contacts of the cheap regulator. Explains why tapping effected it so much!

 

[Btzj02]

This guy is very knowledgable and interesting to talk to.

This picture shows the burned up contacts of the cheap regulator. Explains why tapping effected it so much!

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Had my gen and voltage regulater repaired at a good shop and it was charging well on the guages when i picked it up but when instaled at a fast idle sits on zero ampa and at normal sit at abot 4 amp discharge..Now rev it up to 2500 or so and it may go to 10 amp charge...Tis is second trip to repair shop and now beleive something else going on..It is a ford 9n or 8n not sure but know the regulater can be a A or B and the repair shop was aware of thisNow when it goes to a 10 amp charge if the lights are turned on it will discharge so something wrong here//

..HELP

OK, stop what you are doing and first determine what GEN you have and what tractor model it is. ALL 9N & 2N tractors after April, 1940 used a 1-Wire/3-Brush, 11.5 AMP, "A" CIRCUIT Design GENERATOR with the ROUNDCAN CUTOUT circuit and used NO VOLTAGE REGULATOR. The 8N Model introduced the Voltage Regulator with the 3-Wire/3-Brush 11.5 AMP "A" Circuit GEN. The later 8N was revamped to a 3-Wire/2-Brush 20 AMP Unit when the side mount dist was released. It is essential that all wiring be correct. Battery must be a full charge, meeting specific gravity. When running at idle, what does the AMMETER show? Should be around 7 AMPS. At half throttle does it show a slight increase? Whether if using a GEN or an ALT, you MUST have a fan belt tensioning device attached. Otherwise you will never charge the battery. Failure to use proper belt tension also will affect the cooling system and can damage the water pump. ALL 9N & 2N Models used a 1-Wire Starter Motor with NO RELAY (SOLENOID). There's more to the system too - Distributor must be right. Ballast Resistor must be in the coil circuit. I would not be mucking around probing wires if you don't know why and what you are doing. Can, short out something. You can only verify the GEN circuit wire configuration internally. Unless you have the early 9N GEN and its VR, all N's are wired with the "A" Circuit Design. IN ADDITION, FWIW, an AMMETER is better than a VOLTMETER. Kettering 101. Power is measured in AMPS, and volts don't mean much. You saw 'APOLLO 13' right? AMPS are everything. Using the PICTOGRAMS, define your setup.






Tim Daley (MI)