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gleaner concave bars question

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wjkrostek

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as was suggested I checked the bars on my gleaner and the one on the door is shot but the others look good. I was thinking of removing the top bar and replace it on the rock door. I when to the steel shop and they don't sell channel iron that size. this was 1 3/8 wide and and leg is 3/8 high. I can buy 1 1/2 by 1/2 but it has 90 degree angles on the inside. The one I took off is tapered on the inside. how serious a problem is this. Can I get a way with just running one bar short for this season to make sure the machine even works. If the machine works can I just replace all the bars with the larger channel as long as they are all the same size. Or will the lighter channel iron bend to easy? i attach some pictures of what I have.
a47367.jpg

a47369.jpg
 
Actusally, the one on the door doesn't look all that bad....

They aren't all that expensive from the dealer, annyhow as I recall.

That's a very sensitive area to be changing the depth of the channel, I think you would totally change the way the thing thrashes. I would not just slip any old channel iron in there if it were me.

What you save on a few bucks of iron you could lose on $7 corn, $13 soybeans in just a couple acres.

--->Paul
 
First check the manual for the crop your threshing to see how many and what positions you need the bars in. Corn and Beans don't require all the bars to be in place, usually ever other spot and the pattern depends on if you have rocks in the field that can be pickup with the header. Wheat is the crop where you need all the bars.
 
I'm doing oats and they will be damp, well the straw will anyway the grain I can get down below 20% but not the straw. My book says to use 2 to 5 concaves but doesn't give a position. Do they count the one in the door as one also. How would you position yours given that information. I'm new to combining and trying to get the best chance I can. Thanks for your input.
 
I'm a combine virgin and was surprised to hear the door one is not that bad. Looked bad to me but you must of seen worse? I will not have any rocks to deal with up here. Do you think I should replace the one in the door with the last one I took out or should I just put it back where I got it and wait until I can get the proper replacements for next year and just go ahead and use it as is. I'm doing oats and I mostly want the straw. There are no dealers up here but I can get them shipped up. If I used the other iron I would of ground down the extra 1/8 of an inch but I couldn't do anything about the width or construction and I would think the 90 degree angle would bend easier because it's not as thick at the base. thanks for your time. Please take a look at my other post on the raddle floor and let me know what you think of that problem.
 
Don't worry about the one on the door, it looks O.K. as do the others. The one on the door is mainly to stop foreign objects at that point and trip the door (looks like it has been doing that). Also, we have used regular channel in the concave but you should replace all of them so all are the same height. Keep a bar in the top row to retard the flow of grain and keep it from flying up on the walkers. Keep in mind that the condition of your cylinder bars is far more important than the condition of your concave bars
 
The concave on the door looks serviceable but it should be removed and straightened- the edge on the left side is bent up a bit. I have done like others- replaced all the concaves with channel from a local shop. AC used a different size just to force you to buy theirs. Last concave I bought was $15-20Y over a decade ago. A few concaves cost more than all new steel from the rack. You should put bolts in all the open holes where concaves are missing- they lose grain if open.
 
seems to me that the other channel iron would fit in the spot but if its serviceable or not I don't know. And do you think it would be better to use the skinner 1 inch wide or the 1.5 inch wide? would you even bother to grind down the extra 1/8 inch off the legs? My book says to use 2 to 5 concaves for oats. Can you tell me why or when it would be better to use 2 than 5? My crop is wet heavy oats and is now lodged. the weather is not helping me this year. Just what I needed for a learning experience. Never been around a combine.
 
In Wheat and Oats we always use #1,3,5 concave bars. The one on your door (#1) is shot. It's almost worn down to the bolt heads in the center portion but high on the corners. As I recall the channel iron is 1 1/4" and I buy it from the blacksmith shop in 20' sticks. 1 1/2" will work just as good.

Gleaner concaves will wear high on the edges and center but wear down in two troughs. Use a hand grinder and keep those high spots down and you won't have cracked grain.
 
The concaves on there have legs that are 3/8 inch high and the steel shop only sells it with 1/2 inch legs in 1 or 1.5 inches wide. You think either will work or is one better in your opinion? As long as I replace them all at the same time will it make a difference having the extra 1/8 inch in hight?

Which way is the best to run the straw through? 1,3,5, or leave it the way it is? If I change it to 1,3,5 I will have one to replace the one on the door. My biggest problem is not in getting the grain off it's going to be running the long wet oat straw through it and plugging it up. I want to set it up to give me the best chance of moving no matter how slow.
 
You can us regular channel iron but you have to grind down the "ears" so the height matches the other concaves. The bar on the door is considered the number 1 position. Those bars are there to give the cylinder bars something to rub the grain against to thresh it. Same as taking a handful of grain and rubbing it between your hands to thresh it out. The number of bars needed depends on the condition of the grain at harvest. You are trying to have enough just enough surface area to rub the grain (thresh) against those bars with the cylinder to just get the grain without damage. I would start out with bars in the 1, 3. and 5 spots and see how it does. Be sure to set the cylinder gap which is measured between the cylinder and the bars to what the book calls out for oats. As far as the raddle I would take the time and replace the false floor. If the raddle snags it will break a bunch of the wood slats before it binds enough to trip the slip mechanism on the drive gear for the raddle
 
If the heads of the oats are dry enough to combine I don't think the stems will be as wet as you think. If the heads aren't dry enough to combine trying to run green material through will just plug the machine. You have to wait till the crop is the right moisture. If it won't dry down uniformly then you have to windrow it and then let it dry down before combining.
 
Make sure you put the bolts back in the holes where you have removed the bars so the grain don't fall out through those empties. I'm not try to be smart...just making sure you know the bolts go back in even if the bars are absent in that position.
 
You can go buy any channel iron to replace these but the legs of the channel that stick up have to be a certain height because the cylinder is a certain diameter. If they are too tall then you can't set the cylinder gap correctly because the 1 and 5 bar positions will hit before the center 2, 3, 4 positions.
 
If they are in a windrow they for sure will not dry down as far as if left standing. the grain I can get below 20% but the straw will not. until I cut the grain off and let it sit on the stubble even then its hard to get dry enough to bale. unless I get a big wind, it will sit there and stay wet with the grain on it will just sprout. If I cut it with a swather is it still possible to combine it with a Humme reel? I guess what I'm asking is which is easier. Combine a lodged crop or a swathed crop with a Humme reel. My guess would be lodged crop because the sickles would just plug up with a swathed crop. straw doesn't seem to mold as bad as grass hay. I have problems with hay too. But there the amounts are one ton to the acre not four and I can ted it and rake it then I use crop saver as an aid. Some times I use crop saver on my straw too.
 
Thats what I was thinking but didn't know if 1/8 of an inch makes a difference. when I look at the picture it looks like there is a place for 6 rows of concaves if you count the one in the door. I'm not worried about getting the grain off the straw, as that has never been a problem in the past years, the problem is always been going slow enough not to plug the combine. speed in not important right now. I was never in control before and didn't know if I could do better if i was. So I bought this gleaner E3 and I want to set it up for my best chance of keeping her moving, no matter how slow. if it doesn't knock all the grain off I'm not worried about that so much, as I am plugging her up. How would you set it up if that was your goal? To keep the straw flowing? PS the way it is now most of the grain is going to be on the ground no matter what I do.
 
wjkrostek, what is it like farming in Alaska? I assumed there wouldn't even be combines up there but obviously thats wrong. How long is the typical growing season , are you restricted to only cereal crops, and do you always have to dry them down after harvest?
 
There are not many combines that's why I had to get one or quit doing my dream. If I get mine running there will be two in the valley working that I know of anyway. Now I have it and I don't want it to be a nightmare. I think you can grow more than cereal crops but no big money crops like corn or SB but even if you could there is no mills to sell it to. you have to have a place to sell it to. The few up here that will buy grain offer what the spot price is down there and there shipping cost and they want it dry and clean. You can't really grow it up here for that. Energy would cost so much to dry you couldn't make it. I don't have to dry mine. if I get them under 20% i can keep them by sucking cold air thru them until they freeze and that doesn't take long. And they are sold and eaten before May when it thaws. There are a few true farmers but not many. Alot of want to be's like me. We just don't have the climate for it. A few have done good on vegetables but most are just speculators hoping we will get a gas line before we freeze. And they want to subdivide. If we don't get something going there will be more empty houses and no need for new ones.
 
If you swath the crop, it will dry the stems and weeds. That"s why we swath it. But you don"t try to run the windrows into the combine with a sickle head. You need the pickup attachment to lift the windrow into the header. I"ve run nothing but Gleaners since 1976- K,F,F2, M2. #1 is on the door- never run without it- it is the cylinder protection- from rocks, wood roots, any kind of junk. I"ve never alternated concaves- doesn"t hurt, but I don"t see the need. Usually run 1,2,3, sometimes the fourth. I didn"t grind the channels I made from common stock. Just drilled the holes and installed. No problem adjusting the concave clearance. BTW- if you plug the cylinder, pop the door open with the wrench, remove the two bolts that hold the rear door to the frame, and swing it down. Can often just start the cyl to clear it, and be running again in ten minutes. When closing the door with the wrench.....never center yourself under the combine, unless you want to switch choirs- lay off-center and pull the wrench- it snaps hard and you don"t want it between your legs when that happens!
 
Since I now know you are in Alaska that changes how you would operate. Since the heads are drying down before the stems and you say that swathing it won't allow it to dry down further then you have to take the crop off the field in 2 passes. The first pass is with the combine with the head raised up to just take the top couple of inches of the oats leaving the stems. The second pass is with a windrower of some type to then cut the stem/straw that is standing so you can bale it up.
As far as you post about lodged crops, there is no easy answer to that problem. Every farmer hates dealing with that since no one solution works for every situation. If it's lodged bad enough so it won't dry down and you can't get under it with any type of platform to pick it up or windrow it to bale it's a loss. I can't stress enough....combines do not and will not perform well with green crops going through them. They just plug continually and you don't get much separation of the grain because the green stuff won't float in the air streams through the chaffers etc.
 
And I forgot to add that since this is an old gleaner and it just has a slat style reel you may need a finger reel to grab the crop and pull it in to the header since your not taking much stem by cutting it high to leave the stem/straw standing. Have to try it to see if the crop will flow with standard reel.
 
what do you mean by a finger reel? if its a Humme reel I have that already and I'm replacing the wood as it was all rotted. what a pain with the springs.

I still don't get the answer on what's the best way to set it up the concave for my situation. one said he always uses 1,3,5 for oats. Now it is 1,2,3,4,5. which way will pass the straw the best? and at what setting book said 1/8 in to 1/2 inch. seems to me the books said use 2 to 5 concaves but they don't tell you the spacing for order. Because I'm not to worried about the grain coming off seems like 2 would work the straw the least and keep it going the easiest. If that's true then i should put one in the door and the other in 6 and set at 1/2 inch. I'm just tryng to think this through so as to have the least amount of problems. I wish everyone would jump in and help me out with all your experiences we should be able to think this one out. Experience is what I need. I'm in way to deep to quit now. thanks for you thoughts.
 
I think what everyone is stressing is combines are really sensitive to the conditions at the time of harvest. That is why there are so many ways to set a combine so it can match the conditions. I would put in bars 1, 3, and 5 and set the cylinder for 1/2" and see what happens. As far as the reel question, a finger reel has fingers on it rather than slats so it can comb the crop into the header. Works for lodged crops and short crops.
What I don't understand is why are you using a combine if you don't care if you get the grain? There are better easier ways to windrow cereal crops if all you really want is the straw. That is why I suggested 2 passes on the field, one with the combine with the header up to just get the grain and then windrow the field to get the straw and bale.
If you really want to learn from our experience then don't try to combine green crops. It doesn't work. Combines are not designed to handle green material no matter how much you want them to do it.
 
either way it has to get cut and the man I rent the land from doesn't want the grain or the straw in the field. He will but potatoes where the oats are next year and the straw doesn't break down very well and the oats sprout in the spring and make a mess. I have to pay him to spray the oats out so the less he needs to spray the happier he is. i'm sure he is sorry he let me in there at all and I'm trying to keep the piece. Without him I have no place to plant. If I just cut the straw it is surprising how many oats are left in the bales. Then the mice and squarrls make a mess of it in storage. There dog yards turn into oat fields and they don't want that. It's hard to rake the cut oats into windrows with out getting dirt all over the oat straw. I have had to do that when I can't get her done. It is dirty no matter how I do it. The combine works the best In one pass I get the most done and the less damage to field or straw. I have to try or quit. I don't want to quit. I'll keep trying until I can't. The oats will not be green unless your using green to mean damp to wet. that they maybe. Hume reel sounds like what you call the finger reel and I have one. Thanks for your time.
 
The best way to prevent the volunteer oats is to combine the crop correctly in the first place. In grain country here it has been common practice to cut the crop high so that the machine isn't processing all the straw. There is very little material going out the back since it is mostly chaff and not the straw. If the farmer then later wants the straw then it is very easy to cut the standing straw with a sickle or windrower and it can be cut much shorter than with the combine. That will give your landlord the cleanest field with the least amount of straw for the conditions your describing. I have to admit that if that is the normal conditions up there I can see why crops that require a combine aren't grown. Nothing about it works well for the combine.
 
And to add....you should be able to set your rake so the tines are just above the ground when raking and still get all the straw into a windrow. I grow hay and don't want dirt in the hay either and almost every cutting gets raked. Set your rake higher and the straw will be clean.
 
Mines a wheel rake and the hay i have is all sod so it stays clean. The silt dirt up here is either flour or mud, it does grow the vegetables. before the windrows are dry enough to turn over, the ground next to it is flour and dusty. You have to be here to under stand the problem. I just live in the wrong place to farm. thanks for you time and thoughts.
 
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