H - starting system...

[banjoman09]

This has been ongoing for a few years; you guys have helped me a few times; so here it is again; My 1942 6V H Tractor starts hard- or wont start at all. I mean it cranks slow...after the first hit it might go 5 or 6 turns then thats it; I have a new 6V battery; new starter from this site; new battery and starter cable; big as my little finger....I dont get it! Thanks

 

[teddy52food]

Battery ign. or magneto? They will start easier with a good hot mag.

 

[wowsk]

Are the connections all clean? I would make sure everything, especially the ground has good connections.

-Noah

 

[rustred]

The starter may need brushes and bushings and a clean up.got to start at the heart.

 

[rustred]

Ok just saw new starter. But its actually a rebuilt. So it still may need to be checked

 

[redforlife]

The 6 volt system was not none to strong to begin with. Bad, rusty connections and lighter duty cables makes them even weaker.
One of the big keys to operating with a 6 volt system, is keeping the rest of the tractor up in shape. Good plugs, good wires, good points, all of it. Keep it tuned up, so it pops right off and runs when you go to start it. 6 volt systems don't like poor maintained tractors that are, well, just hard to start. If you got to grind and grind and turn engine over and over and over to get the engine running, the 6 volt system is gonna get either to weak to start or dead pretty fast. Engine needs to fire right off when starter is engaged.

 

[gmcdeadhead]

convert over to 12 volt

 

[gene bender]

use 1ga cables and run the positive ground to a mounting bolt on the starter and its also possible the starter needs refreshing.

 

[gene bender]

Question when those tractors were new thye started all the time warm or cold how do you think we made it before 12v came.. They started then and will start now if things are in shape good way to ruin a starter is run12v when it needs a refresh real bad then put 12v on it and wow now big problems. I make some decent money fixing the cobbled 12v conversions as the average owner does not know how to convert then worry about coil electric ignition and so forth when all they needed wwas just get the system in good working order.

 

[Brownie450]

When you have a failed start, feel each connection
for heat. When you feel heat, you have a problem.

This should include the starting switch.
Jim

 

[caterpillar guy]

Clean bright and tight ground to starter case bolt.Live wire to starter bolt on side of starter all being closer to the diameter of your thumb. o/o size cables like on semi's work better/necessary. Check starter for worn brushes,bushings and dirty commutator. Then feel for warm/hot connections. Any that heat are dirty or not making good connection. Or you can convert to 12 volt mostly for convenience of parts with some of the 6 volt stuff getting harder to find/get.

 

[Dave BN]

I don't know how big your little finger is but that sounds like too small a wire size to me.
Dave

 

[rustred]

yes little finger past the knuckle is about right, or 5/8 inch thick wire thats with out the insulation. welding cable works good. plus those push button switches are another problem thing.

 

[Oregon Tractor Jack]

As stated, feel the connections for heat. Really check the starting switch. Most of the replacements are cheap junk from the land of almost right. I had one switch last like two starts and then it smoked.


OTJ

 

[redforlife]

Let me start by saying, I am not a believer in 12 volt conversions. Most of the time they are done by people who don't know what they are doing, and often times they don't do a complete conversion.
Back in the day, people didn't know the difference of 12v. They only had 6v, and that was all they knew. Back in the 40's and 50's, if a 6v system got a little weak, they likely only had one thing causing it, because the tractors weren't very old at the time. So, they fixed that one thing, and had a good system again. Fast forward to today, these tractors really have some age on em now. Probably have had ailing 6v systems in them for years, and only kept alive by keeping a fully charged fresh battery in them. Now weak systems likely have multiple things wrong, and people trying to fix them that don't understand a 6v system to begin with. They overlook alot of things. Not just good ground connections. They don't realize thier battery cables went bad 25 years ago, and previous owner replaced em with 12v lighter duty cables. They don't realize it is a positive ground system. They just say, oh gesh, somebody must of hooked battery up wrong. I better turn that around. And then the matter of cut-outs and regulators. Knowing the difference and how they work.
12v conversion is not a smart move. But also, its a crap shoot trying to guess and tell someone whats entirely wrong with thier system.
This guys original post almost sounded like his starting problem possibly is engine related. If your engine isn't going to fire over and run, it isn't going to matter if you can turn engine over with the starter, or not.

 

[the tractor vet]

Well (1) if you have big fingers then fine BUT ya need 00 cable for 6 volt . () today it is hard to find a GOOD 6 volt battery . SOOOOooooooo myself today i would make the jump to 12 volt . a group 24 12 volt bqattery will fit in your battery box just fine , the cables will be great on 12 volt . So now what ya neeed is a SMALL 12 VOLT ALt. on resistor for the 6 volt coil three new lights a larger wire from the alt to the battery like a 8or 10 ga and NEVER look back . She will start NOW .

 

[gmcdeadhead]

[Let me start by saying, I am not a believer in 12 volt conversions. Most of the time they are done by people who don't know what they are doing, and often times they don't do a complete conversion.],

i've rewired a half dozen tractors already , all 12 volt, brand new one wire alternator, electronic ignition, coil , wires, and plugs, new battery cables , got rid of the amp gauge and voltage regulator, i always put in a voltmeter, TOTALLY COMPLETE CONVERSION , . tractors start up a half revolution of the motor , best thing you could do for the tractor , get rid of the old junk 6 volt system ,

This post was edited by gmcdeadhead on 11/07/2021 at 08:55 am.

 

[the tractor vet]

well you need to work on a few more to catch up . Ya don't need the fancy ELECTRONIC ing and any forth grader that can Read and follow instructions can do a 6 to 12 and you can take your one wire system and shove it as we have had more problems with one wires then i care to talk about . Nothing like doing a service call for a dead tractor setting a corn crib when it is 25 below because the one wire alt has sucked the life out of the battery . And doing one on and H is so simple if ya want to get fancy ya change out the amp gauge that was a 220 or 30 amper to a 60 amp and switch wires . A resistor off a mid 60's Mopar works great and only wire ends need changed lights depending on style a simple bulb change a heavier hot wire and making up a mounting bracket for the small ram alt. She still looks factory stock hardly any time involved and out the door . Also been down the road in the Pointsless ing. You don't know how many times i have gotten the call MY TRACTOR DIED I am in the field rain's coming i have corn to get in th ground or i have hay down . Grab a dist. that i had already run across the strobe and go switch them out . Nothing more like getting egg on your face then having your pulling tractor just die at the 285 foot mark headed for the gate with the ft end two feet off the track just flyen and the electronic Ing just dies and the sled comes up and drives you ten more feet . Never had that happen with the OLD POINTS . With OLD points ya could always get it running to get your sorry donkey home with out a tow truck or service call . Keep it SIMPLE STUPID the Old K.I .S. S.

 

[FBH1939]

Before I redid my H I had the same issues. I bought a full harness and correct size cable kit from Brillman and the speed at which it starts up at is amazing. It is not whipping around like a 12 volt but it spins over and starts quickly. Get the right parts with a good ground and the old 6 volt works just fine.

 

[2farmRon]

I went through this with my Super H. I swore something was wrong with the starter. I relocated the positive ground to the starter mounting bolt and cleaned all connections and it works properly now. Made sure battery cables are large and in excellent condition. I didn't want to convert to 12 volt because I did it on a previous tractor and over time it damaged the flywheel. Just my experience.

 

[Dick S]

First place I look and often the problem with old cars, tractors, whatever, is the connection between the GROUND cable and the frame -- often gets rusty or corroded, and seldom gets a look or cleaned. Also, what size is this cable -- big cable to the starter doesn't do you much good if the cable from the other battery terminal is tiny.

 

[banjoman09]

all cables are new and big! I will try the ground connection- thanks!

 

[banjoman09]

ok and thanks!

 

[banjoman09]

6V system- with Battery....i put this in my post. Thanks