Hauling Hazardous Materials

[john in la]

Lets see if we can clear the air and try and separate fact from I think I know or I heard.

First I will show you a piece of paper.
This is a license to haul hazardous materials.

Without this piece of paper no one and I mean no one can haul hazardous materials on the highway unless you have a exemption.
I do not care if it is 1 ounce; 1 pound; or 1 cubic inch.
You must either have this piece of paper or a exemption to haul any hazardous materials.

You may hear people mention placards; it's for personal use; it's under 1000 pounds; it's less than 119 gallons; and the list goes on.
Plain and simple if any one brings up any of these things they do not know hazardous materials laws because while some are real hazardous materials rules they do not apply to the general public.

So we are going to assume no one on this site has this piece of paper.
So that means you need a exemption.
There are 4 exemptions I can think of.

1) is a exemption for farmers.
I am not schooled on farmers exemptions so I will leave this alone but I can tell you it only applies from the barn to the field; or the supplier to the field.

2) would be explosives. This is a exemption for fireworks a few weeks before July 4th and New Years to allow people to but fireworks.

3) would be combustible liquids. This is diesel fuel. The DOT does not regulate combustibles in containers smaller than 119 gallons. So diesel fuel is not considered hazardous materials in containers less than 119 gallons.

4) would be Material of Trade. (MOT)
I will post a link to a MOT brochure.

So if we leave out Diesel; farmers do their job; and fireworks the only exemption the general public has is MOT.
Under MOT rules the general public can only haul a total of 440 pounds of hazardous materials.
There are also container size rules.
Lets look at a couple. You can find these rules in the link if you need proof.

Gasoline is a class 3 packing group III product.
So under the rules the container must be 8 gallons or less.

Propane is a class 2.1 hazardous material.
Under the rules the container can only be 220 pounds.

Oxygen and Acetylene tanks are a class 2.2
Under the rules the container can only be 220 pounds.

So plain and simple if the general public wants to haul and hazardous materials they must either find it on the brochure in the link or it is illegal to haul it.
Materials of Trade

 

[paul]

I missed out on previous discussions that brought this about, but my first reaction is that everyone driving a gasoline vehicle is breaking your rules, I don?t know a vehicle with smaller than 8 gallon tank.....

Sure the driver isn?t intending to be transporting gasoline they are using gasoline, but it?s still being transported.

Guess it will be fun to see this all get hashed out.

Lot of farmers haul 300 gallon fuel tanks around, I?m not sure what category that falls into or if just no one is looking out on the county roads.

Paul

 

[moresmoke]

Some states allow larger quantities. IE 300 gallons of farm fuel. But it is a specific exemption that only applies within a specific state.

Vehicle fuel tanks are a bit different. Vehicle tanks are part of a manufactured machine. They are not portable tanks. They need to meet certain standards on mounting, roll over protection, etc. I believe the largest allowed gasoline vehicle tank is 50 gallons. Yes I know some of you have old farm trucks with bigger, that was then, not now.

 

[john in la]

The DOT book is like a phone book for a major city.
No way I could give every scenario here.
It would take me weeks.

But fuel tanks are a big one everyone brings up when you start mentioning container size.
It comes under perceived threat.
Any fireman is going to know that if a car is one fire a 20 gallon gas tank is involved.
If a big truck is on fire two 150 gallon diesel tanks are involved.
This happens under normal conditions.

But not every pickup has large containers of gasoline in the bed or even a 500 gallon propane tank for that matter.

Like I said I am not up on farmer exemptions.
My training is transportation of hazardous materials for hire.
So I can not comment on your 300 gallon tank.
But I can say that would be illegal for the general public.

 

[Goose]

I guess I missed the first part of this.

When I was in the Marine Corps, I had an endorsement to haul nuclear materials. THAT was a challenge. You were basically given a book about an inch and a half thick and told to memorize it.

Actually, I had no need for the endorsement myself, but in this unit I had collateral duties of Motor Transport NCO, and I was responsible for getting that endorsement for those who did need it. So-I figured the best way to know what I was doing was the get the endorsement myself.

I'm sure things are a lot more stringent now.

 

[4play]

Are all of us now considered motor carriers, do we all drive commercial vehicles, and are engaged in commerce? What if we don't have DOT and MC numbers? Aren't those regulations for hauling commerce only? We are not hauling goods owned by other people for profit or compensation. I can cite all sorts of regulations that you or I might have to follow but that doesn't mean they apply to both of us all the time, not all regulations apply to "everybody".

"Commerce" is the key word for these federal regulations

Definition of Commerce:

The exchange or buying and selling of commodities on a large scale involving transportation from place to place

 

[Northvale PA]

With all due respect, following the law is optional. Haven?t you heard?

 

[ohiojim]

good enlightenment, thanks for taking the time to post.

 

[VADAVE]

John thanks for the effort of tracking this down. However the write up just shows how stupid the people of our government are or how hard they are willing to work to control us.
This statement "Gasoline is a class 3 packing group III product.
So under the rules the container must be 8 gallons or less." taken literally means that gasoline powered car is illegal. Can you find a car with less then a 8 gallon fuel tank? Further electric cars will fall into the same category as the batteries are big and are somewhat unstable.

 

[Little Ed]

This has been many years ago, but when I worked as a petroleum transfer technician,(gas jockey) we were sent a letter by the Illinois state fire marshall that told us we were not to put any amount of fuel in any container with a capacity of more than six gallons unless it was connected to the fuel delivery system of a motor vehicle

 

[Bret4207]

Well done John! Trying to clear up a complex issue is never easy and for some reason people always want to argue with you when you do!

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 23:28:51 09/27/19) I missed out on previous discussions that brought this about, but my first reaction is that everyone driving a gasoline vehicle is breaking your rules, I don?t know a vehicle with smaller than 8 gallon tank.....

Sure the driver isn?t intending to be transporting gasoline they are using gasoline, but it?s still being transported.

Guess it will be fun to see this all get hashed out.

Lot of farmers haul 300 gallon fuel tanks around, I?m not sure what category that falls into or if just no one is looking out on the county roads.

Paul

A vehicle fuel tank as mounted to an automobile, tractor, generator, etc. isn't "in the book", eg- it isn't a portable contained as outlined in the FMCSR. Just trust me on this, I spent years doing this work and John in La is still in the industry IIRC. There are exemptions and exceptions and decisions ( I forget the term they use) that outline what is and isn't HAZMAT, a container, a tank, a bulk tank, etc, etc, etc. It's not an easy subject to learn and without a background and training in it you're just shooting in the dark.

 

[r.w.b.]

Put in box trailer,lights all working.drive legal. Aint no witness aint no crime.
The above letter is what i was trying to point out.cost kills value of moving a 500 gallon lp tank

 

[3000OH]

Thanks for the very thorough review and also taking the time to point out the areas you?re not as familiar with.

 

[1948CaseVAI]

Speaking as a retired street Lt from a large PD it occurs to me that all of that ambiguous BS only matters to those who are caught. Not caught? No crime.

There is no excuse for regulation of anything to take up as much space as an urban phone book.

 

[4520BW]

The main difference is for hire and personnel. John has rules to follow as part of his job. I haul hundreds of gallon of diesel plus shuttles of chemicals but if john is hauling as his jobs he has to be licensed. Another example is I can drive my semi without a cdl but if I haul for hire I need a cdl same as spraying for my neighbors,as long as I dont ger paid money I van do it without a commercial application license.( trading labor or getting a case of beer is ok).

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Or if a person wants to find out about obscure laws on such things go thru a DOT check in PA,those guys know all that stuff and readily point it out.Might get a tad
expensive though.

 

[Steve in VA]

You are spot on. DOT is applicable to transportation in commerce. That element is why so many folks go down the rabbit hole of " what about the fuel tank on my truck I drive to the hardware store."

 

[mmfan55]

You left out "consumer commodities ". Just to show how inconsistent the laws are: I no longer have the haz-mat endorsement nor does the carrier I drive for have haz-mat certification. I do legally haul haz-mat on occasion but it is listed as consumer commodities and exempt from the haz-mat requirements. For instance: hauling oil in a tanker or in the 300 gallon totes is considered "bulk" and is under haz-mat guidelines. Hauling the same product in cases of quart containers is a consumer commodity and requires no haz-mat endorsement. Several other commodities I have hauled as well that in bulk quantities are under haz-mat guidelines but in small retail containers are not. Just a example of the inconsistent regulations. So hazardous materials can be hauled without haz-mat guidelines. Depends on what it is and how it is packaged.

 

[john in la]

One day we may get across to you guys there is no distinction between personal and for hire when it comes to hazardous materials.

 

[john in la]

Consumer commodities are not regulated by hazardous material rules.

Like diesel several things are only considered hazardous in bulk.

 

[Steve in VA]

I refer to 49CFR171.1 as it states applicability "in commerce". I am not sure of the origin of this thread so, are we talking this regulation for hazardous material or something else?

 

[T in NE]

ORM-D
Other regulated materials, domestic.

 

[504]

Hazmat is a pain for everyone. This will apply more to insurance inspectors and OSHA inspections. If you have your Oxygen bottle on a cart and the acetylene, and the safety caps are on the bottles you must have a firewall between them. If the caps are off, and the regulators are on and hooked up, you do not need a firewall. . I talked to one of the local DOT officers for Missouri about the license for my pu. Just a 3/4 ton Chevy 2X4. Missouri plates run 6,000,12,000,18,000 then 24,000#. My PU and camper are right at 14,500#,he told me none would ever check the weight as long as there was not a wreck. With the 18,000 plate on my truck I asked about flares or fire extinguishers,not needed because it is my personal PU.(they sure ask to see them in my work truck)(51,000# Hazmat)

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 15:20:50 09/28/19) One day we may get across to you guys there is no distinction between personal and for hire when it comes to hazardous materials.

Exactly what I was going to say. I think we're wasting effort here John.

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 00:02:12 09/29/19) Hazmat is a pain for everyone. This will apply more to insurance inspectors and OSHA inspections. If you have your Oxygen bottle on a cart and the acetylene, and the safety caps are on the bottles you must have a firewall between them. If the caps are off, and the regulators are on and hooked up, you do not need a firewall. . I talked to one of the local DOT officers for Missouri about the license for my pu. Just a 3/4 ton Chevy 2X4. Missouri plates run 6,000,12,000,18,000 then 24,000#. My PU and camper are right at 14,500#,he told me none would ever check the weight as long as there was not a wreck. With the 18,000 plate on my truck I asked about flares or fire extinguishers,not needed because it is my personal PU.(they sure ask to see them in my work truck)(51,000# Hazmat)

Just to show how people choose to play this game- You are mixing HAZMAT regs and exemptions, State licensing requirements, standard FMCSR regs and then more State regs. You have at least 3 different authorities in your post and you seem to be trying to mix them all together.

You take one at a time apply it to the proper area and it all becomes a lot clearer.

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 16:06:39 09/28/19) I refer to 49CFR171.1 as it states applicability "in commerce". I am not sure of the origin of this thread so, are we talking this regulation for hazardous material or something else?

With a regualted HAZMAT "in commerce" doesn't matter. It's a HAZMAT, it will always be a HAZMAT and you can't change that unless there is an exemption or exception if it's transported in a motor vehicle on public highway. It's that simple.

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 13:13:03 09/28/19)
Speaking as a retired street Lt from a large PD it occurs to me that all of that ambiguous BS only matters to those who are caught. Not caught? No crime.

There is no excuse for regulation of anything to take up as much space as an urban phone book.

I'm not sure I'm following you. You can't really be stating that if you don't get caught committing a crime, then no crime was committed?