Head condition

[Fuddy Duddy]

Pulled the head off my '58 Ford 861 to replace the head gasket. It was running fine. Just seeping a little coolant. Been doing so for years. I ordered parts for another 172 and for my 8N and figured I would go head and get a gasket for it too. A week after the gasket came in the steering box went out. Time to get to work. Good timing anyway. Not planning to get the head redone since it was running fine. So what do you thing about the way it looks? Is a little oily. But wasn't using much oil. The engine might be a little weak. But it's not ready for a rebuild. I'm mostly concerned about that white exhaust valve? There is a little nick on the #4 exhaust valve. Don't know what caused that? But it looks like it's working OK. Any thoughts?

 

[Duner Wi]

Fill the chamber with gas, that will give you indication of how the valves are.

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

I had the head upside down cleaning it up and seen this on the ground. I have no idea where it came from. Looks important. What is it?

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

Fill the chamber with gas, that will give you indication of how the valves are.

Level it up and fill it over the valves in a way I can tell which valve has the gas coming though if any is what you are saying?

 

[Jim.ME]

I had the head upside down cleaning it up and seen this on the ground. I have no idea where it came from. Looks important. What is it?

That looks like a cap for a valve stem. There should be caps on at least four valves. Check the parts manual to see.

Manifold off, level it up and pour gas in the chambers to cover the valves. Look at manifold ports to see which ones are letting gas pas by them.

The head is off, it is a good time to get it done up right. you should also check the block surface.

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

I thought that's what it was. Thing was, I was only seeing one. I got my magnet and swept around and found the other three. I've got the head off on my other 172. I didn't remember seeing any. So I walked down there to where it is at and found they're all four still on the heard. If I find it needs something else done I'll just have to take the time and get it right. It's 100 miles round trip to the machine shop and I'd have to make two trips. We're in the middle of a drought right now. As we are every Summer. I've got a bunch of young seedlings needing water. Hauling water best I can right now with the trailer behind my lawn mower. It's a lots better when I have my tractor to use. Thanks for the help.

 

[soaked]

Hi Fuddy Duddy,
At first look, thought they were small little craters, then looking at this angle, looks like solder droplets?

Are pistons loosing aluminum?

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

That's water. Or more correctly 'sweat'. #3 does have a little pitting on the piston. But not too bad. That's where the gasket was leaking.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Pulled the head off my '58 Ford 861 to replace the head gasket. It was running fine. Just seeping a little coolant. Been doing so for years. I ordered parts for another 172 and for my 8N and figured I would go head and get a gasket for it too. A week after the gasket came in the steering box went out. Time to get to work. Good timing anyway. Not planning to get the head redone since it was running fine. So what do you thing about the way it looks? Is a little oily. But wasn't using much oil. The engine might be a little weak. But it's not ready for a rebuild. I'm mostly concerned about that white exhaust valve? There is a little nick on the #4 exhaust valve. Don't know what caused that? But it looks like it's working OK. Any thoughts?
View attachment 161376

That valve on the end is ugly it looks like the valve seat is cracked and may be lose in the head. That valve needs to come out are have someone that knows look at it. Its just hard to tell when its carboned up that bad.

 

[Duner Wi]

Level it up and fill it over the valves in a way I can tell which valve has the gas coming though if any is what you are saying?

Head upside down and level. Fill the chamber with notches in exhaust valve first.Leave manifolds on at this point. If gas escapes rapidly,you know you need valve job. I suspect you will need valve work done.

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

I went ahead and popped the valves out. That white valve has a couple little spots that look like it’s starting to go bad. The seat has a shiny spot on it too. Think lapping would take that out? Called the machine shop. They said it should cost around $280 to do both heads. If I’m going to go down there might as well do them both. Said it will take a week or probably less.

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

That valve on the end is ugly it looks like the valve seat is cracked and may be lose in the head. That valve needs to come out are have someone that knows look at it. It’s just hard to tell when it’s carboned up that bad.

Hey Hobo. Haven’t talked to you in a long time. Hope you are doing well. You’re right. The seat is cracked. Looks like I’m going to Springfield. It’s a 100 mile trip that takes all day. LOL. That’s because my wife will be going with me. She likes to go. She’ll hit all the stores while we are there. She’s Asian. She likes to go to all the Asian stores and buy the things we can’t get locally. At least we’ll be eating good next week. I’m retired now. Guess I need to just relax and enjoy it. Thanks for your help.

 

[lodoc]

Called the machine shop. They said it should cost around $280 to do both heads. If I’m going to go down there might as well do them both.

I think you'll be happy with your decision. Ask them if your vintage head bolts can be retorqued or should be replaced. Might as well do it right the first time.

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

I pulled that rear valve and seen the crack in the seat and I guess I quit looking. Then see what I seen the second look. Hope no the head doesn’t turn out to be junk. The other 172 I’m working on goes to my rock crusher. If I have to I can put it on my tractor. The tractor is more important. I do have a third supposedly rebuildable 172 I can get a head from if needed. I’ll see what the machine shop has to say

 

[Hobo,NC]

Hey Hobo. Haven’t talked to you in a long time. Hope you are doing well. You’re right. The seat is cracked. Looks like I’m going to Springfield. It’s a 100 mile trip that takes all day. LOL. That’s because my wife will be going with me. She likes to go. She’ll hit all the stores while we are there. She’s Asian. She likes to go to all the Asian stores and buy the things we can’t get locally. At least we’ll be eating good next week. I’m retired now. Guess I need to just relax and enjoy it. Thanks for your help.

Cool, if I were you I would take $600 with me when I went to pick up two heads. To do two ford 390 heads 10 years ago it took $300 a head they did not have harden valve seats they installed harden seats, you make get out for a little less.

On the caps for the valve I think they are for free rotating valves and I may be wrong. Anyways they are the same as used on a N with free rotating valves other than the are a tad shorter. Look into the fit/specs before you just throw them on, Take them with you ask the machine shop guy his thoughts about this.

Edit
That's nasty lets hope they can save the head. .

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

Cool, if I were you I would take $600 with me when I went to pick up two heads. To do two ford 390 heads 10 years ago it took $300 a head they did not have harden valve seats they installed harden seats, you make get out for a little less.

On the caps for the valve I think they are for free rotating valves and I may be wrong. Anyways they are the same as used on a N with free rotating valves other than the are a tad shorter. Look into the fit/specs before you just throw them on, Take them with you ask the machine shop guy his thoughts about this.

Edit
That's nasty lets hope they can save the head. .

I'll take something better than money. I'll take plastic. LOL. They said $140 each. But that's with no problems. What ever it cost at least I'll know it was fixed right. It's been a good running engine. But had I done nothing I think that was soon to come to an end. I'll take the caps.

 

[Gary Reif]

I pulled that rear valve and seen the crack in the seat and I guess I quit looking. Then see what I seen the second look. Hope no the head doesn’t turn out to be junk. The other 172 I’m working on goes to my rock crusher. If I have to I can put it on my tractor. The tractor is more important. I do have a third supposedly rebuildable 172 I can get a head from if needed. I’ll see what the machine shop has to say

From the looks on that picture I would say that at some time previous a seat came loose and beat the edge of the counterbore. The machine shop can look that over and see if a new seat will fix that or maybe go with a size larger OD to remove some of that damage. I'm sure they will know what it needs. Just my thoughts maybe it's not what it looks like.

Just to add after looking closer I see machine marks on the head surface so I would say it has been surface before, we always stamped the amount on the surface somewhere.

 

[Ray,IN]

I think you'll be happy with your decision. Ask them if your vintage head bolts can be retorqued or should be replaced. Might as well do it right the first time.

NEVER re-use head bolts. They have already been stretched by torquing once. It's what turns a head reconditioning job into a waste of money and time.

 

[Duner Wi]

Do some research on reusing NON TTY head bolts . If they are not stretched or compromised in some way I reuse them.

 

[Bern]

NEVER re-use head bolts. They have already been stretched by torquing once. It's what turns a head reconditioning job into a waste of money and time.

Not true. Head bolts on a machine that old can be reused as often as you like. They don't stretch like new ones.