HELP Massey 165

[Blowefosho]

I have a 1971 Massey 165 with the 4
cylinder Perkins gas engine. I have had a
lot of issues with the tractor not running
properly since I have gotten it. I have
replaced many parts on the tractor
(carburetor, fuel filter, spark plugs,
Spark plug wires, along with misc parts)
hoping to get lucky but have not had too
much luck. I had it running OK recently
but it ended up dying on me again. I ended
up determining what I thought my problem
was all along (vacuum leaks) and took the
intake and exhaust manifold off because
they were not true. I had vacuum leaks on
the outer cylinders on my intake manifold
causing my 2 middle cylinders to be rich
and my outer cylinders to be lean. I got
them re faced, And put back on the tractor
with new gaskets. I knew for sure this
would finally fix the issue but turns out
it wasn't so. Just tried starting it over
and over again and it acts like it wants to
run but will not. I pulled the plugs to
investigate and found the 2 outer cylinders
which were lean before the reface,
actually looked a little rich and dry
(definitely not lean like before). The 2
middle cylinders which were very rich
before the refacing, we're still fairly wet
though. I'm to the point I'm tired of
replacing parts and want to figure out what
really needs done. Could my 2 middle
cylinders not be firing? Or weak spark? I
was thinking about changing out the
distributor cap and/or coil pack. Would
this be the next step? Any and all
suggestions appreciated!

 

[Blowefosho]

Pics. Plugs are most recent after reface

 

[Blowefosho]

(quoted from post at 11:54:17 07/16/23)
Pics. Plugs are most recent after reface

ttps://forumphotos.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto107587.jpg[/img]

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 14:57:54 07/16/23)

(quoted from post at 11:54:17 07/16/23)
Pics. Plugs are most recent after reface

ttps://forumphotos.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto107587.jpg[/img]

Have you done a compression test? Results?

Have you adjusted the valves?

Did the miscellaneous parts include points and condensor?

Did you time it with a light?

Air cleaner condition?
Just trying to get as much background as available to work from.

 

[Blowefosho]

I have not done a compression test maybe I
will do one this week. I have not checked
the valves yet but that was something else
I was considering so I will probably pull
the valve cover off this week as well. I
have not changed points or condenser. I
have not checked the timing it was timed
before I bought it a year ago. Air filter
is new.

 

[MF#1]

In my opinion the first and last plugs look like too rich mix, the middle two look a -little- rich, maybe carb adjustment? If it were mine I would replace all four plugs OR clean them with carb cleaner by holding them vertically and filling the plug with cleaner and light them with a match or lighter then scrub them with an old toothbrush. I also like to run a larger straight pin around the interior to scrape out any carbon. Do you have a strong blueish spark that jumps 1/4 inch from the wire that goes from the coil to the distributor cap when cranking? Also, make SURE the wires are in the correct firing order, you wouldn't be the first person to skip a wire or two when replacing them. I would ensure the spark is good before I would mess with the carb and/or valves but they will probably both need attention. Let us know what you find. Good Luck!

 

[Blowefosho]

Yes I agree they're on the rich side but they were really lean before the reface so I'm glad I'm heading in the right direction at least. It's hard to tell in the picture but the 2 middle plugs are actually a little wet. I was able to take a paper towel and wipe The Residue off the plugs and they looked brand new underneath. The plugs are brand new Except for maybe a few hours on them. I will definitely have to check the spark coming from the coil and double check all the spark plug wires. I thought because of the residue on the 2 middle plugs that possibly they weren't getting good spark at all? Why else would they be wet? And then when I wipe them off it looks like a brand new spark plug underneath. I will definitely check the spark coming from the coil and make sure all the wires are correct

 

[MF#1]

Why else would they be wet? It could be because you were using too much choke or the carb is set too rich for your engine. IF all the spark issues check out you may want to try starting without using choke a few times then pull one of the end plugs(#1 or #4) and see what they look like. IF dry then try again using choke for a few revolutions and see if it tries to start, if no start then pull same plugs and see what they tell you. Hopefully you can gain some insight into what may be causing the no start. This can be a very aggravating process but you need to eliminate non-issues to lead you to sucess. The Operators Manual has a diagnostic checklist for troubleshooting. If you don't have one I would highly advise you to get one.

 

[Blowefosho]

But wouldn't they all be wet if it was just too rich? The carb is set more lean right now if anything because I thought it was too rich. I tried starting it initially with no choke, I normally always do. Honestly I don't use the choke much unless necessary. I'm going to look into it this evening so I'll see if I come across anything. Appreciate the help so far

 

[Blowefosho]

I just checked for a spark from the wire coming directly out of the coil and I couldn't see anything... should it be pretty obvious?

 

[Blowefosho]

I tried it again and did notice a good spark. But I did notice the coil was extremely hot to wear I could not even touch it. I don't think that's normal?

 

[MF#1]

Why wouldn't they all be wet? If one or more cylinders is low on compression due to wear/broken rings/valves out of adjustment usually there will be one or two that foul and cause missing. No, the coil should NOT be that hot which makes wonder if the coil is failing or has failed. When you DID get a spark was it blueish in color? When you installed the new points did you get the gap correct? Now's the time to get that fixed/checked. Also observe the points opening and closing while cranking(in Neutral of course). If you have an automotive test light you can tell if you're getting voltage TO the points. If all that looks good reassemble and try to start, if the coil still gets hot then it's probably time for a new one. Spark wires in correct order on the cap? The rotor should be pointing to the #1 spark plug wire then go from there assuming it's on the top of the compression stroke.

 

[Blowefosho]

Just giving you guys an update. I did a compression test as suggested and all was good. All cylinders were 110-115. I replaced the coil to be safe. I triple checked all the plug wires and did find what I think were 2 that were flip flopped. It was set up correctly if the distributor turned clockwise but it doesn't, which I double checked. As far as I know the wires have been wrong since I got the tractor because when I changed them I did one wire at a time to make sure I didn't mix anything. I want to still double check that the rotor is pointing at the correct spot when 1 is at TDC, but it's been a headache trying to find a way to hand turn the engine over. The crankshaft pulley bolt is not easy to get to. Either way I tried firing it up last night and she sure is trying to run now! Sounds much better! But I can't keep it running for long. I'm thinking the carb may need some adjustment now. Fingers crossed it will be running stronger than ever soon

 

[MF#1]

Told you it would be aggravating;-) Glad you got it headed in the right direction! Either bump the starter with the key or pull the starter and pry on the flywheel. Keep at it!

 

[Blowefosho]

Appreciate the help! Just tried starting it again after cleaning carb. It started up and ran for maybe a min. During that time I wasn't touching anything and the engine was revving up and down. Like it was trying to stay running but eventually died. Not sure what it is now. Plugs were dry but outside plugs were really carboned up

 

[MF#1]

Have you checked the float level on the replaced carb? Either that or the mixture could be off. When you replace the carb it's a good idea to adjust the governor too. That requires a shop manual, either MF or IT(aftermarket brand, sold online and at most Tractor supply stores) AND it must be running to adjust. Have you always had a good flow of fuel entering the carb? It doesn't take much to clog one up. Confirm good flow then tinker with the mixture screw, 1/2 turn at a time. Thanks for reporting back!

 

[Blowefosho]

I have not checked the float level. I will do that. I have a manual but I'd really like to see how to adjust the linkage properly. I've read about the governor adjusting in the manual and have tried but wish I had pics to go off of. I've always had good flow of fuel. I've been tinkering with the carb when I'm able to get it running but haven't had any luck yet. Something is definitely still off but I can tell it's going to run way better if I can get it figured out

 

[Blowefosho]

Okay yall we are finally in business! Thank you for all the suggestions and help. So I ended up making sure the gap on my points were correct which they were slightly off. Like I said earlier 2 wires were crossed on the distributor as well. I was finally able to hand turn the engine over by making a custom 1-11/16 wrench. I verified TDC and noticed the distributor seemed too much out of line, so I moved it to where I thought it should roughly be. I did adjust the carb float as well. Just went to try to start it and with no choke and 2 cranks it was purring smoother than it ever has and I've still yet to time it and fine tune the carb. So relieved to hear it running again! I think the timing was honestly the biggest factor.. I don't know if it slowly started slipping out of time or what but I'm glad it's running again

 

[MF#1]

Woo-hoo! You got it going in your direction now. I'm confident you'll get it finished up. Thanks for posting back!