Help with year/make/model refilling hydraulics

[theguydgaf3369]

I am a first time tractor owner. I had emailed someone at this site and he said it was a '56 or '57 case (not case ih). I am not doubting his knowledge, but when searching forums relating to refilling the hydraulics, nothing listed was where it was said to be. I do not understand jargon like "torque tube"and such so i may be a lost cause. My email is [email protected] for anyone who could walk me through not killing a classic tractor. Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

 

[fred goodrich]

Put hyd in plug in front of main shift lever. Probably back plug is overfull they have a habit of the seal leaking.

 

[VACLee]

There is a dipstick for the hydraulic level next to the dash support. Looks like a small square headed pipe plug. It is in the shadow in picture # 3. The transmission dipstick/fill is the bigger plug behind the main shifter cover on the left side. On yours it appears to have a breather on it so the actual dipstick may have been removed. Lee

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Tractor is 1956 or 1957 series 300. Can't see the front axle but if tube type adjustable than tractor is model 311. Model serial nr tag will be located on the dash if still existing (pic 1). It has triple range for 12 speed ahead and 3 speed astern. Hand clutch for "constant running" PTO.

Torque tube is hydraulic reservoir, capacity 3 gal, dipstick located as in pic 2. Transmission/final drive, SAE 90 gear oil, model 311 capacity 7 gal. dipstick in pic 3. Steering gear box, SAE 140, +1 qt pic 4.

Joe

 

[theguydgaf3369]

What is the purpose of the fourth pic? Isn't that part of the steering box? All tags for i.d. purposes had been removed so i don't know anything as for model or year for sure so i don't want to risk putting the wrong fluids. Is smell the onky way to discern what fluid to use?
My main problem is that the hydraulic system is not lifting my mower deck at all and thinking there would be an o-ring or seal that was keeping it from pressuring up. Would pulling the plate under the seat be advised to fix this issue?

 

[Joe Young]

(quoted from post at 17:15:06 02/15/16) What is the purpose of the fourth pic? Isn't that part of the steering box? All tags for i.d. purposes had been removed so i don't know anything as for model or year for sure so i don't want to risk putting the wrong fluids. Is smell the onky way to discern what fluid to use?
My main problem is that the hydraulic system is not lifting my mower deck at all and thinking there would be an o-ring or seal that was keeping it from pressuring up. Would pulling the plate under the seat be advised to fix this issue?

Joe is showing you another reservoir for oil in picture #4. It is often overlooked, but the steering assembly needs to serviced frequently as well.

Before you start swapping parts, and pulling the plate of the top of the transmission, you should troubleshoot first. There are several potential reasons you are not getting pressure to raise your mower deck.

1. Hydraulic oil level low and below pump intake pipe. Confirm there is hydraulic oil in the reservoir (torque tube). Joe showed you where the dipstick and fill hole for that reservoir are located in his second picture.

2. Hydraulic pump is disengaged. Confirm the hydraulic pump is engaged. The hydraulic pump on your tractor can be disengaged if not being used. The lever to do so is depicted in your forth picture. The lever is slightly ahead and below where the hydraulic hose enters the hydraulic manifold. I don't remember if the lever is extended (forward) then the pump is engaged, or if it is engaged in the current position shown.

3. The woodruff key that secures the driven gear to the oil pump shaft may be sheared. If this is the case, you will need to access the pump which is bolted to the bottom of the plate that the hydraulic valves are mounted to underneath the fuel tank (your pic 4).

4. The seal(s) on the rockshaft piston have failed. To access the piston assembly you will need to remove the transmission top plate.

5. They hydraulic pump is completely shot and will produce no pressure (no likely, but possible).

Plumb a temporary pressure gauge into hydraulic circuit between the pump/valve and the rockshaft piston. That will help you isolate the problem.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Well I wrote a bunch of stuff and while downloading pics saw Joe's post, pretty much same thing I was going to post.

You still seem to be in doubt about what tractor you have. Your tractor is one of the models in the 300 series that was built in 1956 & 1957 only. The 300 series tractor models are (1) 301 diesel (2) 310 utility (3) 311 wide front end general purpose (4) 312 narrow front end dual or single wheel. Other than the 301 the tractors all had 148 cid gas or LPG engines. Yours is either a 310 or 311, betting on 311, need to see front axle to confirm.

Suitable lube: (1) transmission SAE 90 or 80/90 gear oil (2)Steering gear box SAE 140 gear oil. (3) torque tube hydraulic oil reservoir, I use a general purpose hydraulic oil. (4)Factory engine oil was SAE 5-10-20 or 30 wt pending ambient temp. Some guys use 10w30.

In Joe's post #2 Pump engagement, your pump engagement shifter is already in the engaged position (all the way in). Pic 3.

Pic 4. This jury-rigged breather is really suspicious. It looks like it is attached to the original transmission dipstick nut. Given that you are having hydraulic lift problems, if the hydraulic level is becoming low and the transmission oil level high, there can be transfer of torque tube hydraulic oil leaking into the transmission via the eagle hitch piston and/or shaft seals. Pic 5 is the factory transmission vent, clean and check it, it is more than adequate for this installation.

Joe

 

[theguydgaf3369]

Thanks alot everyone. The people who owned it before me did all their own work to it, removing tags and replacing things with breathers. I really appreciate all the info. Now i have enough to go on till i can order a manual.

 

[theguydgaf3369]

So far, the hydraulic system is pressuring up just fine without the mower deck. Turns out there was a hell of a leak at some point and needed 2 1/2 gallons.

With that solved, all i need is either a new/reman carburetor or a full kit. The choke and throttle flaps wiggle around a lot more than they should, resulting in erratic idling. Other than that, i should have it running decent enough to get some use out of this antique.

Thanks again for everyones help!

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Did you check the transmission oil level, the 2-1/2 gal may have ended up there. That isn't enough oil to raise the level a whole lot in the transmission as the axles are flooded on the 311, lots of capacity.

Joe

 

[theguydgaf3369]

Ya know, i did notice about 3 tablespoons of fluid came out of the tall breather that is in front of where the seat goes.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

(quoted from post at 16:53:46 02/17/16) Ya know, i did notice about 3 tablespoons of fluid came out of the tall breather that is in front of where the seat goes.

Full oil level in the transmission is like 8" or so bellow the top cover. If your dipstick is mia, I can post a pic with measurements if want.

Joe

 

[Ande]

Joe, I just got to say this, as I was taught too. Thank you for the great information

 

[theguydgaf3369]

Yeah, it has the dipstick and is a bit fuller now since i filled the hydraulics. I found the hydraulic leak where the hand clutch goes into the casing.
That'll all have to wait till i can figure out the problem with it trying to die under a load.
The linkage all moves freely but after a cold start, it will run for about 15 minutes just fine, then starts choking and chugging. My first thought was a vapor lock since the fuel line runs next to the exhaust. It is copper tubing with rubber hose over it for sheilding. It always acted this way when fuel is about half a tank, but typically acts better on full tank.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Thanks Ande. Joe

 

[Joe (Wa)]

I doubt it is vapor lock, add some kind of heat sink like tin foil and test run. It appears that you start out with a full carb bowl and a trickle of makeup fuel that is insufficient to keep up with the engine consumption. You say it runs better with a full tank so there may be a restriction. It could be debris in the tank at the sediment bowl standpipe, restriction in the sediment bowl valve/strainer, tubing to carb, carb float valve. The carb floats could be misadjusted or hanging up high in the bowl. You need a vented cap for the gas tank, if in doubt leave the cap off for a test.

I think you probably checked the tank for debris and cleaned the sediment bowl. One of the things to check is take the tube off at the carb and drain about a gal in a bucket, there should be a full tube flow start to finish. Common factory carb for the 300 series was MS TSX-635. Remove the plug on the bottom and run at least a gal. You're not going to get the full flow that you might see from a clear tube above but it should be steady.

I bought a VAC 18 years ago that sat outside non-running for many years. It had the same problem once I got it to start up and run. Teed a rubber hose into the gas tube at the carb and ran the hose end up to the operator platform. I drove that VAC home 8 miles, every time it started to stumble I blew in the hose. Had to stop a couple times, blow till I heard bubbles in the tank and the engine would slowly pick up.

Joe

 

[theguydgaf3369]

Interesting. I had recently taken the tank off and tried to clean it the best i could before re plumbing the fuel lines. Not saying something didn't wiggle loose and pluging it but from the look of the flow, it seems fine.
I do know that the carb that is on it now is not the correct one and may be the whole issue. Someone put a TSX785 MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor on it which is listed to fit a case 700 among others. It's new replacement is cheaper than what was on it originally, so i imagine that is why this one is on it.
I found that the replacement for the MARVEL SCHEBLER are under $200 whereas the original replaments are at/around/over $300 which is a bit over budget for me at the moment. I guess what i am getting at is should i replace this one with the original because this 'wrong' carburetor could be the culprit?
(I just want to say a million thank-yous to anyone and everyone's input. I just know that a persons personal experience is much more useful than a manual can ever be, and for y'all offering to help is VERY much appreciated)

 

[Joe (Wa)]

(quoted from post at 00:00:37 02/19/16) Interesting. I had recently taken the tank off and tried to clean it the best i could before re plumbing the fuel lines. Not saying something didn't wiggle loose and pluging it but from the look of the flow, it seems fine.
I do know that the carb that is on it now is not the correct one and may be the whole issue. Someone put a TSX785 MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor on it which is listed to fit a case 700 among others. It's new replacement is cheaper than what was on it originally, so i imagine that is why this one is on it.
I found that the replacement for the MARVEL SCHEBLER are under $200 whereas the original replaments are at/around/over $300 which is a bit over budget for me at the moment. I guess what i am getting at is should i replace this one with the original because this 'wrong' carburetor could be the culprit?
(I just want to say a million thank-yous to anyone and everyone's input. I just know that a persons personal experience is much more useful than a manual can ever be, and for y'all offering to help is VERY much appreciated)

Can you find out from the former owner if it ever ran correctly with the TSX-785?

Before you buy a replacement carb, I think it would be worth the time and a few bucks to completely disassemble, clean the carb and install a basic kit.

When you disassemble the carb check the floats free movement in the bowl. Turn the top upside down and check the adjustment clearance 1/4" and floats parallel to the top casting gasket.

The tractor pic is Roger Hornbaker's model 311. We expect you to post a matching pic of your tractor in the very near future.

Joe

 

[theguydgaf3369]

I will be sure and check all that out.

This is the only pic i have as of now, because i am still in the process of working on it. Someone did not care for her like they should have.

Just thought i should mention, i am not trying to do a full restoration on this, she will be put to work.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

I was just kidding. None of my tractors are restored pass better than good working condition and mostly original paint.

Joe

 

[theguydgaf3369]

I get ya. I figured it was like a forum rule to post pix or something. Either way, i figured it would be decent of me to show what i was working on, it is the least i could do.