Hey old.. M started! Yippee!!

[dschaefer55]

I set everything to TDC and M backfired, oil came shooting backward out of oil bath air cleaner! Now that's a backfire! I switched plug wires 180 degrees... and nothing! Switched wires back and forth a couple times with same result, so finally moved wires over one nipple, clockwise, on distributor like you did on your Ford and M started right up. I was so excited I almost wet my pants! LOL!!

 

[dschaefer55]

M runs really rough, I smell gas from exhaust. I have to adjust timing? If so, what I do next?

 

[dschaefer55]

I loosened the 2 distributor mounting bolts and turned distributor counter clock wise( towards me)until M is running great!! I will have to be careful not to break my arm patting myself on my back!! Thanks to every one for your help, with special thanks to old

 

[PretendFarmer]

Obviously your not timing it properly. To get it close, you have to bring #1 up to top dead center of the compression stroke. At that point your distributor should be pointed at #1 which if looking straight at the rotor would be about 4 o'clock. If its not pointed at 4 o'clock then pull the distributor off of the ignition housing and turn it, then put it back on.
If you did that correctly you can time it by ear after that or get a light.
backfires like that aren't good.

 

[randy hall]

#1 cylinder rotor position is one oclock.

 

[dschaefer55]

ok thanks it's running good now. What your saying is different than M Manual, manual said set rotor and distributor cam at 35 degrees from straight up noon, it shows TDC at what looks like to me, two o'clock . But my manual is a reprint, the pictures are awful fuzzy. My cam shaft fan belt pulley timing marks are missing. I set timing by doing the opposite of your instructions. I set rotor to #1 TDC by turning engine by hand, then line up distributor cam shaft lugs to rotor Should I do this again but set rotor to 4 o'clock position? Then turn engine until distributor body & drive shaft cam lugs fit into the distributor bracket drive shaft that slides on to timing gear?

 

[kevinj54]

(quoted from post at 15:50:03 03/11/16) ok thanks it's running good now. What your saying is different than M Manual, manual said set rotor and distributor cam at 35 degrees from straight up noon, it shows TDC at what looks like to me, two o'clock . But my manual is a reprint, the pictures are awful fuzzy. My cam shaft fan belt pulley timing marks are missing. I set timing by doing the opposite of your instructions. I set rotor to #1 TDC by turning engine by hand, then line up distributor cam shaft lugs to rotor Should I do this again but set rotor to 4 o'clock position? Then turn engine until distributor body & drive shaft cam lugs fit into the distributor bracket drive shaft that slides on to timing gear?

So you got luck and hit a timing point where it would start...

That is not the right way to time an engine!

You need to find the timing marks, they ARE there and easy to see if you clean things up.

Then follow what you have been told above and it will work fine.

 

[dschaefer55]

to randy hall; that's what #1 TDC looks like to me, from looking at M manual. But Pretend Farmer said 4 o'clock. Now I'm scratching my head. Hey I got the M running good, is that ok in the long run to leave timing as I have it set? I use tractor, it does not sit around.

 

[randy hall]

well if you were close you could come over and I could show twenty or so farmalls that are timed right.

 

[dschaefer55]

Cam pulley has chunk missing where double timing notches were I chipped fan pulley in my unsuccessful attempts to get PS pulley on fan belt pulley. I saw timing marks on fan pulley but those marks were gone after pulley was chipped. Missing piece of fan pulley is about 1 to 2 inches wide. Manual says to have pointer right at or just past timing marks, I can set timing pointer to that spot on fan pulley to set timing. Any thoughts?

 

[dschaefer55]

I live in Minot, North Dakota, where are you? I have Farmall fiends around Minot that can help me out & set me straight. Thanks

 

[old]

Ya funny how if the plug wires are off by some much as one nipple on the cap they will not run. Good you got it going. Many say you have to use a timing light to time an engine but I have not used a light in well over 3 decades to time them but then I am old school hot rodder and learned that on some engines the chains stretch so the timing has to be set a bit off from what the book says. As long as it starts good and has good power you should be just fine the way you set it

 

[David G]

Interesting, you did not time it on TDC if it was 90 degrees off on the cap.

 

[dschaefer55]

thanks old that's what I wanted to hear! see how it runs when I pull my disk on the gravel driveway.

 

[old]

You want it to spin over well and have the power it should have. If you find it has a hard time spinning over with the starter back off the timing just a tad bit.

 

[randy hall]

ohio.

 

[Janicholson]

I agree in all ways. To find the real timing mark location. (Carefully do the following) Disconnect the battery. Remove the insulator from a old spark plug that is from the engine. Braze or weld a 3/8" course thread nut onto the shell so it lines up with the remaining hole. Using 3/8 course threaded rod about 5 inches long as a "feeler". Round the end of the rod on a grinder to make it useful as a probe and not scar things. Remove all the spark plugs. Use an LED flashlight to look into the #1 plug hole, and position the piston near the top, but not at the top. Put the "Feeler" device in the #1 hole with the threaded rod removed. Thread the rod into the "feeler" device and screw it in by finger pressure only till it touches the piston top. Put a lock nut on the rod to assure it is stable and rigid. Using the fan blades only, turn the engine gently in the direction toward the "feeler" (It should not move any or vary little). Use a straight edge from a location like the top of the frame rail to the inner flange of the crank pulley (not fan pulley) use a white marker to mark this spot as known (temporary). Turn the engine carefully the opposite direction 350 degrees or so until the piston touches the "Feeler" again. Mark this spot temporarily. These two marks are very accurate known locations. 1/2 the distance between them is a very accurate TDC. File a notch at that location, and you have established a TDC mark. That mark will be correct for TDC compression and TDC exhaust, so no need to determine which is which. Timing the ignition does require knowing which stroke it is on. but at least you have a real mark. Jim

 

[Hugh McKinney]

That is a very well-thought-out method of establishing tdc, Janicholson. I am gonna write that out and post it in my shop. Hugh

 

[PretendFarmer]

(quoted from post at 20:40:56 03/11/16) #1 cylinder rotor position is one oclock.

Yes that's correct. I had a brain fart.
A lot of caps have a #1 right on it.

 

[Arnold Layne]

Come on man, where did you learn how to check your timing curve or your mechanical advance or your total advance, on some secret submarine E.T. training mission that only you were selected for? Thirty years of calling yourself a mechanic and you haven't used a timing light? It seems like most of the time when somebody has to tell you how "old school" they are it usually means "I really don't understand what I'm doing".

 

[old]

All a timing light does is get you in the ball park and if that engine has a timing chain that will be all it does since chains get longer over time so the marks will not be correct due to the chain not holding things with in spec.

 

[DGinVT]

There are a few people who don't use timing lights. They use a vacuum gauge instead or go by ear.