How deep for post?

[used red MN]

Any wood post over 4x4 next to a road needs to be drilled perpendicular to the traffic flow so it will break off if a car runs off the road per federal law.

The YT lawyers are coming out now, not saying I haven’t played that part before. I see you say “over” a 4x4. A 4x4 made out of the woods commonly used for treated lumber these day does not slow down a vehicle much they just shear off. Maybe a smart car or similar micro car might not take it to well. Does your “perpendicular to traffic..” apply to signage off of the “right of way”? Seems like it would be hard to enforce on private property. If general for sign viewing that is how it would be set anyway. Maybe I am not understanding your description, I am taking “drilled” as the act making a hole and setting the post. And a carpenter’s square set against the face of the post that faces traffic would have its opposite leg parallel to the road.

 

[Ray,IN]

Power poles have an exception mostly because they are not in the road right of way.
Same with huge billboards set back off the road.
But a small business sign is usually put out by the street so passing motorists can see it. And anything in the road right of way has to follow federal road sign laws.

Notice I said in my original post “next to the road “.

In Indiana utility poles are set on the right-of-way outside limit. Utility companies must obtain land owners permission to set a pole on private property. It is against state law to place signage on the right=off-way other than signs owned by INDOT.. Many political candidates have been upset because illegally placed signs are removed by INDOT each election year.

 

[Brian G. NY]

Part of the equation is the size of the posts your using based on the sign size and height. I've had 4' X 8' signs on 4 X 4 posts snap off like match sticks from wind. I suggest 6 x 6 posts for a sign your size.

Wow, I wonder what kind of wood those posts were made of?!

 

[Mark-Mi]

In Indiana utility poles are set on the right-of-way outside limit. Utility companies must obtain land owners permission to set a pole on private property. It is against state law to place signage on the right=off-way other than signs owned by INDOT.. Many political candidates have been upset because illegally placed signs are removed by INDOT each election year.

Yes same in Michigan. Most ( I said most ) utility poles are on road right away. Power company got a permit from the county. If it was not done this way would have been difficult to get power through out county because some owners would have said no.
On a farm we own when the poles that were next to the road got bad the utility had the road right a way surveyed and moved the poles out to the edge of right away.

 

[DWF]

You are not supposed to put election signs in the road right of way, but a real estate sign is okay and alot of those signs are there longer than election signs.
DWF

 

[504]

The only way to keep a 4x8 standing in NEMO is use 4 postes and a diagonal brace between the front and the rear postes. Three postes and cut one into to make 4 . Wet ground and wind will take toew posts down.

 

[ratface]

"Any wood post over 4x4 next to a road needs to be drilled perpendicular to the traffic flow so it will break off if a car runs off the road per federal law."

At first I also thought he meant "Drilledl" to mean inserting a post into the ground. But I think the meaning of that is that you actually drill holes perpendicular to the road. On a 4X4 post you would drill holes as if standing on the road facing the one side of the post facing you. Picture a T-side road, The long side of the T being the drill bit and the top crossbar of the T being the post face/Road because you could drill parallel if drilling the direction your car was travelling.

 

[Phill Tibbetts]

2 feet is good, 3 feet is better , so I would go 4 feet.

 

[sotxbill]

So any power pole has those holes drilled in them?

We dont know if the sign is on public property or private property. If on the road, and in the 8 foot recovery zone, it must be breakaway.

Poles are set on the property line are NOT breakaway but sized to hold the max load under the "storm load" for that area of the country. AND do NOT have holes drilled in them. If you were to make the breakaway, a car could run off the road, break one pole, and then start a chain reaction, thus breaking the next pole, then the next pole till all the poles tied to that lead were broken. SO power/telco poles are not designed to be "breakaway" and again sized to carry the aerial load, plus the height (which is leverage) is factored in, plus the max wind load, plus the max ice load thus increasing the wind load with each and all the cables factored into the calculation. A cable/conductor higher up will have more wind load on the base of the pole than the same conductor lower on the pole. Thus poles in high storm load areas will be thicker, stronger, rated a higher class, than in low storm load areas. A class 5 pole can be nearly 3 foot at ground level?? Memory is faded... Every so often, dont remember the distance anymore, there will be a storm brace where there are off setting anchors on both sides of a pole, so that if an ice storm starts to take a lead down, the snapping poles will stop, at the double storm brace pole or pair of poles. Remember that under heavy icing conditions, the conductor size increases, thus more wind loading, and the conductor weight between poles starts to double and triple, due tp ice, putting even more breaking load in the pole, which is near the ground point. And factor in that poles will rot around 3 to 6 inches below ground as thats where the moisture collects. (very old bell labs study)

 

[used red MN]

Any wood post over 4x4 next to a road needs to be drilled perpendicular to the traffic flow so it will break off if a car runs off the road per federal law.

"Any wood post over 4x4 next to a road needs to be drilled perpendicular to the traffic flow so it will break off if a car runs off the road per federal law."

At first I also thought he meant "Drilledl" to mean inserting a post into the ground. But I think the meaning of that is that you actually drill holes perpendicular to the road. On a 4X4 post you would drill holes as if standing on the road facing the one side of the post facing you. Picture a T-side road, The long side of the T being the drill bit and the top crossbar of the T being the post face/Road because you could drill parallel if drilling the direction your car was travelling.

@john in la, apparently you are in the know about this, I and possibly others are not. The perpendicular hole is drilled to a certain size or maybe multiple holes are drilled per the size of post to weaken the post and provide a shear point? This is what you are saying the federal requirement is? I am not trying to argue the point I would just like clarification regardless of it applies to the OPs sign or not.

 

[john in la]

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/local-rural/maintenance-signs-and-sign-supports/iv-sign-supports

Look at the two signs in the original post.
The rock sign is clearly on private property but the diesel fuel sign is almost in the ditch and most likely in the right of way.

Around here electric poles in the city go between the sidewalk and the road. In the country they go right next to the property line. If you put up a fence you could not walk between your fence and the electric pole. It is that close to the property line.

 

[used red MN]

View attachment 138482

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/local-rural/maintenance-signs-and-sign-supports/iv-sign-supports

Look at the two signs in the original post.
The rock sign is clearly on private property but the diesel fuel sign is almost in the ditch and most likely in the right of way.

Around here electric poles in the city go between the sidewalk and the road. In the country they go right next to the property line. If you put up a fence you could not walk between your fence and the electric pole. It is that close to the property line.

Okay thanks! I would suspect the width of the right of way varies per the type of roadway. I am thinking a country gravel road has a narrower R.O.W. than paved two lanes. I also suspect county, state or federal interstate also affects this. No need to quote any specifics here.

 

[mazzrod]

4x6 post Here I would say 3 ft would hold it fine. Think there will be a lot of options to this answer. Frost line here in Alabama is maybe 6 inches.

Rule of thumb,24-32" that's what my father taught me and every post was " true on two sides,and in line with the rest. Yes we had hard digging stuff you needed a good bar to break it up

 

[mazzrod]

True of if on right of way. Off right of way no different than hitting a tree or building here. Had a guy come to school and ask if class could build him a mailbox that kids could not destroy. He said a new mailbox and post lasted less than 2 weeks. Told him sure but needed ok from post office. Post office was aware of his location and trouble. His driveway was in a curve. Mailbox was actually off right of way. Post office told him as long as it had a flag, door and was correct height no problem. He also knew a state trooper and talked to him. Same story. Anything off right of way was fine. We took a schedule 80 8 inch pipe and cut the dome for top of box from it. Used some 3/8 x 4 for sides. Used a 8 inch I beam turned sideways for bottom. 3/8 plate for back and 1/4 inch for door. Used 6 inch square 1/4 inch wall tubing for post. He dug hole with a back hoe and used several sacked of sackcrete to install. End of problem. He did find a chrome bumper by it a few days later along with tire prints leading up to it.

I'm laughing just thinking about the idiot who tried to lasso it and got dragged out and landed on the gravel