DanielW
Well-known Member
- Location
- Haliburton, Ontario
There are lots of aftermarket hold-downs and a few different styles. If you bring one of the ones you have to TSC or a local farm supply you should find something that will work. Some of them have a low 'arch' to them that won't work with bolted sickles, but most of the ones you find these days will have an arch high enough for both bolted and rivetted sections. For the hold-down right at the knife head, you need to make sure its one of the hig arch styles that will have a large enough arch to go over the head-end of the knife. Most of the aftermarket ones you find these days have holes with large enough clearance to work on all the major makes of sickle mowers (there was very little difference in the guard centre distances between, IH, JD, NH, Massey, etc.).
Some of them are adjustable with a bolt at the back and rounded contact surfaces - see first pic below: You loosen the mount bolts slightly, tighten the adjusting bolt at the back, and this 'pivots' the hold down forward putting more pressure on the knife. The theory works well, but I've got away from using them myself: The adjusting bolts don't cause an issue in grasses, but for lodged or tangled crops they often catch and drag and cause plugging issues (especially bad if you have vetch in you fields). The simple stamped steel ones (second pic) are more conventional, and you adjust them by simply whacking the top of the arch down with a hammer (and pulling a little forward as the hammer hits) - a little crude, but they work just fine. If you have any of the older/original IH hold-downs they're often cast, so you can't adjust using the hammer method (they'll just crack).
Regarding the wear plates that ride against the knife back: Usually they have a little lip that sets over the bar. Sometimes if they've been neglected and the bar is worn down, you have to play with them a bit to get them all in-line and where the original bar edge would have been. As long as they're in-line and all contacting the knife back, you should be ok. Make sure they're all contacting properly. Some aftermarket sections have a little too much length behind the rivets and will interfere with the wear plate, but you can just use a zip disc to bring the trailing edge of the sections back to where they should be.
Other things to look for: Before adjusting your hold-downs, pull the knife out and make sure the guards are all in-line with the ledgers all sitting at the same level. And make sure you've checked the register on your knife (the most frequently overlooked adjustment on a sickle mower, and it won't cut worth a dang if the register is out). Lots of other things to look for on a sickle mower, but that should get you started.
Some of them are adjustable with a bolt at the back and rounded contact surfaces - see first pic below: You loosen the mount bolts slightly, tighten the adjusting bolt at the back, and this 'pivots' the hold down forward putting more pressure on the knife. The theory works well, but I've got away from using them myself: The adjusting bolts don't cause an issue in grasses, but for lodged or tangled crops they often catch and drag and cause plugging issues (especially bad if you have vetch in you fields). The simple stamped steel ones (second pic) are more conventional, and you adjust them by simply whacking the top of the arch down with a hammer (and pulling a little forward as the hammer hits) - a little crude, but they work just fine. If you have any of the older/original IH hold-downs they're often cast, so you can't adjust using the hammer method (they'll just crack).
Regarding the wear plates that ride against the knife back: Usually they have a little lip that sets over the bar. Sometimes if they've been neglected and the bar is worn down, you have to play with them a bit to get them all in-line and where the original bar edge would have been. As long as they're in-line and all contacting the knife back, you should be ok. Make sure they're all contacting properly. Some aftermarket sections have a little too much length behind the rivets and will interfere with the wear plate, but you can just use a zip disc to bring the trailing edge of the sections back to where they should be.
Other things to look for: Before adjusting your hold-downs, pull the knife out and make sure the guards are all in-line with the ledgers all sitting at the same level. And make sure you've checked the register on your knife (the most frequently overlooked adjustment on a sickle mower, and it won't cut worth a dang if the register is out). Lots of other things to look for on a sickle mower, but that should get you started.
Attachments
Hey
Thanks for your reply it's made it much clearer to think now . . i have got cast hold downs how would i tilt them so they pressure the blades ? instead of having the hold down directly on blades it's got plate that's rivited to the blades that gets pressured and that rides on wear plates that have big a big lip to carry the wear plate . Do i need to replace all of these ? Here's are some photos;
forums.yesterdaystractors.com
Does it matter if my bar is a bit bent ?
Thanks
T
Thanks for your reply it's made it much clearer to think now . . i have got cast hold downs how would i tilt them so they pressure the blades ? instead of having the hold down directly on blades it's got plate that's rivited to the blades that gets pressured and that rides on wear plates that have big a big lip to carry the wear plate . Do i need to replace all of these ? Here's are some photos;
Choosing case ih sickle bar mower rockguards
Hey I'm new here . I've got an old case ih sickle bar mower and i want to get some new rockguards to make it work better but the originals one are 50 euros so we bought 2 adaptable case ih combine guards to try ...
forums.yesterdaystractors.com
Does it matter if my bar is a bit bent ?
Thanks
T
Absent Minded Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Gehl Country, Wis.
It's possible it could bind. That was an issue I had. The more new parts that went on the old cutterbar, the worse it got. After a couple weeks of banging my head against a wall, I stripped everything off the bar, pulled it off the wobble box & laid it on the concrete floor. The stupid thing was curled up like a Frito!! It sure didn't look that bad on the mower.Hey
Thanks for your reply it's made it much clearer to think now . . i have got cast hold downs how would i tilt them so they pressure the blades ? instead of having the hold down directly on blades it's got plate that's rivited to the blades that gets pressured and that rides on wear plates that have big a big lip to carry the wear plate . Do i need to replace all of these ? Here's are some photos;
Choosing case ih sickle bar mower rockguards
Hey I'm new here . I've got an old case ih sickle bar mower and i want to get some new rockguards to make it work better but the originals one are 50 euros so we bought 2 adaptable case ih combine guards to try ...
Does it matter if my bar is a bit bent ?
Thanks
T
Not saying that's the case with your mower, just giving an example. The adjustable hold downs may be the way to go for you, if the bend isn't too bad.
Mike
DanielW
Well-known Member
- Location
- Haliburton, Ontario
Hmm, that's an interesting-looking bar. I've had and/or used many makes of sickle mowers of the years, but never seen one quite like that. Looks like it might be a J.I. Case (before the merger with IH). Definitely doesn't looks like an IH (or Case-IH). I think you'll still find that the generic/universal hold-downs will work, however: The guard spacing was pretty much all the same for North American sickle mowers (sometimes varied by 1/16", but the mount holes in the hold-downs usually have enough clearance that they work for either). The only mower I've run across where the universal hold-downs don't work is one I have made by the 'Fried-Mortl' company in Germany, that uses really wacky/narrow guard and section spacing.
It definitely looks like some of your sections have too much length behind the rivet, and are rubbing the bar and preventing the knife back from riding along the wear plate.
If the main bar is bent a bit, usually not a big deal, depending on how bent it is. They often sag a little bit over time, just from being cantilevered out in space so often. But if it's bent significantly, you want to fix it. A good estimate of if it's too bad is if the bow in the bar makes it hard to install the knife. There are a few different ways you can take some of the bend out of a bar: Resting the ends on blocks and carefully pressing down the offending area with a loader works ok (as long as you're really careful). Lots of folks used to (and still probably do) un bolt the bar set one end on a block, and drive one tire of the family car up it.
It definitely looks like some of your sections have too much length behind the rivet, and are rubbing the bar and preventing the knife back from riding along the wear plate.
If the main bar is bent a bit, usually not a big deal, depending on how bent it is. They often sag a little bit over time, just from being cantilevered out in space so often. But if it's bent significantly, you want to fix it. A good estimate of if it's too bad is if the bow in the bar makes it hard to install the knife. There are a few different ways you can take some of the bend out of a bar: Resting the ends on blocks and carefully pressing down the offending area with a loader works ok (as long as you're really careful). Lots of folks used to (and still probably do) un bolt the bar set one end on a block, and drive one tire of the family car up it.
DanielW
Well-known Member
- Location
- Haliburton, Ontario
Yup. Any hold-downs (old or new style) should be able to bolt on without removing the knife or taking off sections.
flying belgian
Well-known Member
Daniel gave you a good guide.
I will add I always pushed the ware plates forward as much as I could against sicle bar.
Hey
Cool thanks for the reply really informative a should really help.I am going to get some those hold downs when my blades are worn out because i replace all the blades with small blades that aligne with the cutter bar so they won't go on a new wear plate . i am going to use the original hold downs but how do i angle them forward without a screw and without hitting them ?
Thank you for all the help
T
Cool thanks for the reply really informative a should really help.I am going to get some those hold downs when my blades are worn out because i replace all the blades with small blades that aligne with the cutter bar so they won't go on a new wear plate . i am going to use the original hold downs but how do i angle them forward without a screw and without hitting them ?
Thank you for all the help
T
DanielW
Well-known Member
- Location
- Haliburton, Ontario
Not much you can do except loosen the bolts and maybe stick some shim under the back end to tilt it forward. But I'd first take a grinder to them and do a spark test. They might be cast steel (not cast iron) and if so, you should be able to bend/adjust them (to some degree) with a hammer. Touch them with a grinder: If it sends off a nice stream of hot yellow sparks like you'd typically get grinding or sharpening, I'd tentatively try adjusting them with hammer (no guarantees - start with lighter strokes). If there are hardly any sparks and they come off in a wide, dark-orange pattern going everywhere, it's more likely cast iron, and you'll have to do your best to stick shim under the rear end to angle them forward. But considering universal hold-downs are only 6-& each, it might be easier to just buy new hold-downs. The hold-downs you have should be separate from the wear plate - the hold downs being bolted on top of the ear plate via the same bolts (sometimes they rust together making them seem like one piece, but they should come apart). So you should be able to put the new hold-downs on with the existing wear plates.
Hey
Ok great i'll try that tomorrow hopefully it won't be cast iron ! another question is how to i know that when the blades arn't touching the ledger plates if it's the hold downs need tilting or the guards need hammering up ? i'll send some photos tomorrow of my progress .
Thank you for all the replys it's been really helpful i've been quite lost before trying to figure this out .
T
Ok great i'll try that tomorrow hopefully it won't be cast iron ! another question is how to i know that when the blades arn't touching the ledger plates if it's the hold downs need tilting or the guards need hammering up ? i'll send some photos tomorrow of my progress .
Thank you for all the replys it's been really helpful i've been quite lost before trying to figure this out .
T
Check this place: https://www.cuttingcomponents.com/
DanielW
Well-known Member
- Location
- Haliburton, Ontario
The guards/ledgers will likely be mostly where they should be - you just have to look for the outliers and adjust them accordingly. Most guards are made of malleable cast steel and could be adjusted, but occasionally you run into a cast iron one. To see if the guards are in-line, I usually remove the knife and look down from the end to spot the outliers. or run a thin wire along the ledgers pulled tight, with 1/8" or so spacers under the two end ones to hold the wire a little off the guards. But seldom do I get that accurate - usually it's just an eyeball affair. I'll often sick a new guard or two on to use as a benchmark to where they all should be. Once all the ledgers are in-line, you can adjust your hold-downs to minimize clearance between the sections and ledgers. The hold-downs shouldn't have to push down very hard to minimize the gap. If they do, something's awry.
Hey
Ok cool . i'm going to cut and grind some wascher for angling the hold downs for the moment and should work . when i can i am goignto get these ;
www.discountfarmer.com
www.discountfarmer.com
and
www.discountfarmer.com
Do you think they will work ?
Thank you very much for helping . Hopefully should get all the hay done thgis year .
T
Ok cool . i'm going to cut and grind some wascher for angling the hold downs for the moment and should work . when i can i am goignto get these ;
Plaque d'usure CLAAS Ref 522181 - Récolte - DiscountFarmer
Plaque d'usure Claas Ref 522181
www.discountfarmer.com
Pince lame IH Ref 3155054 - Récolte - DiscountFarmer
Pince lame IH Ref 3155054
www.discountfarmer.com
Doigt double IH Ref 633098-810 - Récolte - DiscountFarmer
Doigt double IH - Ref Origine 633098-810 - a = 10.5 - b = 77 - c = 156 - d = 114
www.discountfarmer.com
Do you think they will work ?
Thank you very much for helping . Hopefully should get all the hay done thgis year .
T
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
To tilt the hold downs towards the knife sections just use a piece of sheet steel under the back side of the hold down bolts and tighten no need to do a lot of grinding of washers and all. As for the sections they need to be sharp. If you have the knife out you could just run the grnder lightly over the top edge like the angle that is on the sections as they are. If the guards are looking rounded and not a good square shrp edge where the section has to slide over they need replaced. If it has replaceable ledgers on the guards then they would be what would need replaced. I just pull a string down the guards to see if they are out of line up or down much and adjust accordingly. Been 50 years since I was around a mowing machine. Dad got the first mower conditioner in the early 70's was a NI.
Hey
Sorry for the constant messages . i can't find any ledger plates for the ends of the bar . would anybody know where to find any in europe ?
also the original guards i got on at the moment have a working distance of 11.4mm but could i fit on ones that have a 10.6mm working distance ? i can't find any with 11.4mm .
Thanks again for the help
T
Sorry for the constant messages . i can't find any ledger plates for the ends of the bar . would anybody know where to find any in europe ?
also the original guards i got on at the moment have a working distance of 11.4mm but could i fit on ones that have a 10.6mm working distance ? i can't find any with 11.4mm .
Thanks again for the help
T
DanielW
Well-known Member
- Location
- Haliburton, Ontario
Wondering what you mean by 'working distance'? In your original thread, you showed a picture with dimension 'd' as 11.4 (pic below taken from your original thread), but that dimension should be a lot longer than 11.4 mm. Probably more like 11.4 cm?
I think the first step might be to establish what kind of mower you have, because from the pictures you showed in your first post it's definitely not a typical IH nor Case-IH (at least, the bar isn't). I'm thinking it might be a J.I. Case (before Case merged with IH), in which case it would be a lot different than an IH or Case-IH. To give you a little idea of the history: J.I Case had their own sickle mowers, as did IH. When the two companies merged to form Case-IH, they abandoned the Case style and continued with new mowers based off the IH design.
Or possibly it's an IH mower, but has a Rasant or Florett bar - both were used on some mowing equipment exported to or built in Europe. I can't remember which was which between the Rasant and Florett bars. One had guard and section spacing identical to IH, so you could replace all the guards and sections with IH ones if you wanted (might be what you have). The other had much narrower guard and section spacing (not what you have). I have one of the narrow style on a Fried Mortl mower that's now sitting in my fence row. Harder to find sickle parts for, but worked very well and pretty much impossible to plug.
If you can post some pictures of the rest of your mower and ID tags (as well as any stampings/casting marks on the guards or sections) it would help us identify what you have.
Take a look at this catalog (link below). This is a European supplier that has parts for a huge pile of sickle styles. I've ordered some sections from them for my Fried Mortl sickle mower with the narrow guard & section spacing (though shipping to Canada was crazy). Go to the later pages to see conventional sickles - the first part of the catalog is all for double-acting sickles.
I think the first step might be to establish what kind of mower you have, because from the pictures you showed in your first post it's definitely not a typical IH nor Case-IH (at least, the bar isn't). I'm thinking it might be a J.I. Case (before Case merged with IH), in which case it would be a lot different than an IH or Case-IH. To give you a little idea of the history: J.I Case had their own sickle mowers, as did IH. When the two companies merged to form Case-IH, they abandoned the Case style and continued with new mowers based off the IH design.
Or possibly it's an IH mower, but has a Rasant or Florett bar - both were used on some mowing equipment exported to or built in Europe. I can't remember which was which between the Rasant and Florett bars. One had guard and section spacing identical to IH, so you could replace all the guards and sections with IH ones if you wanted (might be what you have). The other had much narrower guard and section spacing (not what you have). I have one of the narrow style on a Fried Mortl mower that's now sitting in my fence row. Harder to find sickle parts for, but worked very well and pretty much impossible to plug.
If you can post some pictures of the rest of your mower and ID tags (as well as any stampings/casting marks on the guards or sections) it would help us identify what you have.
Take a look at this catalog (link below). This is a European supplier that has parts for a huge pile of sickle styles. I've ordered some sections from them for my Fried Mortl sickle mower with the narrow guard & section spacing (though shipping to Canada was crazy). Go to the later pages to see conventional sickles - the first part of the catalog is all for double-acting sickles.
Attachments
Hey
Would these https://www.cam-agri-parts.fr/fr/ba...ase-ih-d44102900-d44104500-3000196677021.html
work if i chop off the back that sit againt the back so i can fit the wear plates on ?
Thanks
T
Would these https://www.cam-agri-parts.fr/fr/ba...ase-ih-d44102900-d44104500-3000196677021.html
work if i chop off the back that sit againt the back so i can fit the wear plates on ?
Thanks
T
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