Hydraulic fluid 8N

[RGR]

Probably seen this many times but want to know, What does everybody use, got this 8N and will be changing fluids when the warmer weather comes around. I've read the 75 tips, and other sites on what to use, straight mineral sae 90, sae 80, NH-410b, m2c134d, and everything in between. I've heard that some of the newer fluids are thinner and might not work properly without a rebuild because of them being thinner and hydraulics will not work properly without a rebuild. This is not going to be a working tractor, maybe once in a while it will be used to move snow in the winter months, but mostly it will be on holiday during the summer months as I work on it as a shade tree mechanic. So I'm looking for an all season fluid, don't mind changing it once a year, but changing it between summer and winter, not so much, so would like to know what everybody else is using, so much choices and info that the mind boggles, You people are THE EXPERTS, am open for your wisdom.

 

[KL in Wi]

I started using the Ford 134 oil about 20 years ago. Have had no problems except the three point arms now settle slowly with the engine shut off. It didn't do that with the 90wt. Works good in cold weather.

 

[hd6gtom]

Many of them that I hauled to the scrap yard had universal hydraulic oil in them. I had to drain the oil out of them before the scrap yard took them. Now they want the oil as they burn it for heat.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 18:11:59 03/04/19) Probably seen this many times but want to know, What does everybody use, got this 8N and will be changing fluids when the warmer weather comes around. I've read the 75 tips, and other sites on what to use, straight mineral sae 90, sae 80, NH-410b, m2c134d, and everything in between. I've heard that some of the newer fluids are thinner and might not work properly without a rebuild because of them being thinner and hydraulics will not work properly without a rebuild. This is not going to be a working tractor, maybe once in a while it will be used to move snow in the winter months, but mostly it will be on holiday during the summer months as I work on it as a shade tree mechanic. So I'm looking for an all season fluid, don't mind changing it once a year, but changing it between summer and winter, not so much, so would like to know what everybody else is using, so much choices and info that the mind boggles, You people are THE EXPERTS, am open for your wisdom.

For wear round use in a cold climate SAE 80W90 gear oil or a UTF (generic M2C-134D). The UTF is a better cold weather hydraulic fluid.

TOH

 

[PatrickB]

RGR,as far as climate is concerned, I'm about 80 miles east of Chicago. Pictured is what I use year round with no problems whatsoever. $33 at TSC

 

[Eman85]

I've used the heavy oil and in cold weather when you start it you can't engage the PTO until the tractor is warm. The fluid is thick and when you let the clutch out in neutral at idle the tractor will stall. I used the M2C134D fluid the last time and it's fine, no cold weather problems.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

First, the FORD M2C-134D and M4864-A/B oils are no longer serviced, meaning no longer made/supplied by Case New Holland. They prefer to sell their newer Boomer model tractors and synthetic oil products rather than help keep the millions of vintage Ford models still being used. Besides, the FORD name has been gone completely since the early 1990?s. You aren?t getting any exclusive parts at a CNH dealer ?they use the same suppliers as everyone else now as it's been for decades. For most applications, straight GL-1 SAE 90 Gear Oil works just fine in all conditions. NAPA sells it in bulk 5 gallon buckets, and TSC sells the same stuff in 2 gallon jugs. The verbiage ?Specially Formulated For Old Ford Tractors? is simply a marketing technique.

NH AMBRA BRAND MC2-134D OIL ?NO LONGER SERVICED:

NAPA API GL-1 SAE-90 OIL:

TSC TRAVELLER BRAND SAE-GL-1 90:

-Tim Daley(MI)

Here is the best explanation on hydraulic oil that TOH has written about many times and can be found in the archives:

The Ford tractor oil sold at TSC is nothing more than SAE 90 GL-1 gear oil. That is as generic as it gets and about the lowest performing gear oil you can buy today. The N-series owner's manual specifies M4864A/B tractor oil. That was the 1940 Ford specification for industry standard SAE 80 a 90 mild EP gear oil. In the current world that would be most nearly approximated by a GL4 gear oil. Putting "specially formulated for old Ford tractors" on the label of the generic GL-1 gear oil is nothing more than marketing hype aimed at people who will believe anything they see on a label. It is the lowest performing gear oil you could possibly choose for your tractor and not what Ford recommended during N-series production.

As I said before - in today's world there is nothing special about the 50+ year old M2C-134D specification or the Ambra Multi-G 134 oil that CNH was selling. That specification is just an old OEM specification for what is now industry standard and inexpensive Universal Tractor Transmission Fluid (UTTF). Kubota has one they call UDT, JD has HyGard, and CNH now has HyTran which is their newest formulation that replaces MasterTran and Multi-G 134 in most of their applications. They are all virtually identical UTTF products. Fundamentally UTTF is nothing more than a high viscosity index, mild EP, SAE 80 grade gear oil with GL-4 level performance.

In some specific "state of the art" type applications the OEM formulations are very carefully tailored to the peculiar friction requirements of the OEM design and generic formulations may not provide the same level of performance. Limited slip differentials, viscous drives, and hydrostatic and synchromesh manual transmissions are some examples of where the OEM oils MAY be a better choice. A 60+ year old N-series tractor is not one of those applications.

In a nutshell my recommendation is use any good quality UTTF, avoid low end UTTF's (the "303" branded stuff in particular), and if you want to use a gear oil avoid mono-grade GL-1 oil and use a mild EP multi-grade formulation with GL4/GL5 level performance.

1.The original Ford 9N and 8N owner's manual recommendation was Mild EP SAE 90 at temperatures above freezing and Mild EP SAE 80 at temperature below freezing.

2.When the temperatures drop there is a very noticeable differences between SAE 80 and SAE 90.

3.GL-1 oils contain zero EP additives and are not mild EP gear oils. In today?s classifications a mild EP gear oil would be GL-4

4.Ford M2C-134D is Ford's specification for what is now generically known as Universal Tractor Transmission Fluid.

5.It is not a GL-1 oil - it is a GL-4 oil

6.Per the OEM it has a kinematic viscosity of 60 cSt @ 40C and 9.4 cSt @ 100C

7.Per the OEM it has a viscosity index of 136

8.If you were to assign a gear oil viscosity grade to it, would probably be something like SAE 75W80

9.It is nothing like the common ordinary SAE 90 GL-1 gear oil which is in that jug labeled "specially formulated for old Ford tractors' that TSC sells.

To summarize - if you are in TSC and want a generic equivalent for Ford M2C-134D get the bucket labeled Traveller Premium Universal Tractor Transmission Fluid and leave that other crap for the people who stopped in for oil while on their way to buy a bridge.

TOH

 

[fusion]

I use the Traveller SAE 90 for Fords from Tractor supply
has always worked well never a issue

 

[RGR]

So being on the other side of the border the names and brands are different up here. Like we have a TSC stores up here but they do not carry the traveller brand, so I'm going to have to some research and see what I can come up with and not what they want to try and sell me. Thanks for the info.

 

[Eman85]

I buy mine from Walmart, they run specials on Walmart.com and you can pick it up at the store. I use the HD tractor in 5 gal buckets.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

I DON'T KNOW OR CARE WHAT 'HD TRACTOR' MEANS -READ THE LABEL AND SPECS. Many products sold are for suburbanites using riding mowers. The 303 stuff is JUNK from what I've read.

TPD

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Hockey land, eh??? Are you sure they are the Tractor Supply Company franchise? If so, I can't see why they wouldn't carry their own brand. Ditto with NAPA -any NAPA stores up dere? No matter, plain SAE 90 GL-1 oil should be under many brands.


In memory of the great Ted Lindsay...

TPD

 

[RGR]

Yeah same franchise but just don,t carry the same stuff, same with NAPA, no real Napa stores but auto part stores that carry Napa parts that most of the time you have to order, it's crazy up here, Eh.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 09:39:50 03/05/19) So being on the other side of the border the names and brands are different up here. Like we have a TSC stores up here but they do not carry the traveller brand, so I'm going to have to some research and see what I can come up with and not what they want to try and sell me. Thanks for the info.

Universal Tractor Transmission Fluid (UTTF) is an industry staple sold under many different names and labels and available throughout the world. It is as common as SAE 10W30 engine oil. There is nothing special about the Traveler brand other than it is inexpensive and readily available in the US. Traveler is a TSC house brand - you will almost surely find the same type of product under a different label in any Canadian tractor or auto supply store you walk into.

There are also some very good "name brands" from Kubota, John Deere, CNH, Massey, etc but you will pay 3x-4X the price for them. They claim some very specific/exotic performance properties for those oils. The price premium for those fluids may be worth it if you are using it in a piece of their complex modern equipment with power shift, hydrostatic, or CVT transmssions, closed center load load sensing variable displacement hydraulic pumps, and wet clutches/disc brakes. But for a gear drive N-series with a little fixed displacement hydraulic pump and dry drum brakes it is total overkill. Get a generic UTTF with a good EP additve package (GL4/5) and a viscosity curve well suited to your seasonal variations in temperature at a fraction of the cost. Avoid the "economy" bottom of the barrel stuff - e.g. the "303" fluids - especially if you get temps below 32F.

TOH

 

[SteveB(OH)]

I haven't visited this topic for a long time, but at some point in the past I was under the impression that GL1 was the best option.

So now it seems that UTTF is the better choice.

My question is, after running GL1 for 20 years can I simply drain and fill with UTTF or do I need do do some kind of flush before I refill ?

Thanks !!

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 18:36:44 03/05/19) I haven't visited this topic for a long time, but at some point in the past I was under the impression that GL1 was the best option.

So now it seems that UTTF is the better choice.

My question is, after running GL1 for 20 years can I simply drain and fill with UTTF or do I need do do some kind of flush before I refill ?

Thanks !!

From the git-go Ford recommended a mild EP gear oil - grade SAE 90 (M-4864B) for summer work and grade SAE 80 (M-4864A) for winter use. GL1 is not a mild EP gear oil - EP additives are not allowed in a GL1 lubricant. Ford also recommended thinning the SAE 80 oil with an even lighter loader oil (M-4864D) when temperatures dropped below 10F. That recommendation reflected the simple truth - a conventional SAE 80 gear oil gets too thick to perform properly in really cold weather. So despite all of the myth you have heard repeated over the years a grade SAE 90 GL1 gear oil is probably the worst possible choice - no EP additive for final drive wear protection and a horrible cold weather hydraulic oil.

If you want to switch to UTTF all you need to do is drain the sumps and refill. Any residual gear oil will mix just fine and as long as it is a small percentage of the overall fill will have negligible effect on the performance of the UTTF. You will also find that in addition to out performing the GL1 oil the generic UTTF's are easier to find and less expensive....

TOH