hydraulic issue

[Cg19]

Hi yall. 1965 430 diesel triple range, has FEL. My 430 has fairly recently developed a fluid transfer issue. Its pushing hy/trans into the rear. Ive done as much research as I can, and found as many threads as I can, but Im stumped. I have put my RM90 in the air on the 3pt, and it stayed up overnight, so that isnt the issue. Where Im really stumped is the seal on the PTO shaft that is supposed to be the one that is the issue, from what I can tell, does not make sense. There was gear oil in the rear end as well as the transmission, and hy/trans in the triple range box. The seal that is commonly the issue, as far as I can tell anyway, seems to be between the rear and trans. Im either missing something, or have bigger issues with this tractor. All help is much appreciated

 

[flatpkr]

Not sure I completely understand your problem, but generally the hy-Tran fluid gets into the rear end through the PTO shaft seal or the 3 point hitch piston seal.
You need to remove the rear end cover and PTO rock shaft to access the repair. I had the same problem on my 1961 430 diesel triple range and replacing the PTO shaft seal and rock shaft piston seal cured the leakage.
Jim

 

[Cg19]

My problem is more of a confusion I suppose. I don't necessarily want to just throw parts at it that may or may not be the issue. Where the seal looks to be is between the transmission and rear, which are both connected. I do understand that the input shaft is hollow and the pto shaft goes into it, so does that mean that hy/trans flows through the hollow input shaft and the seals on the pto shaft keep it in the input shaft? I just trying to get more of an understanding of how/where it may be leaking

 

[Joe (Wa)]

The section of the transmission under the shifter cover is in communication with the after section that contains the differential. It is all one sump with the same oil. The transmission dipstick is actually in the differential section as you can see in the pic below.

Migration of hydraulic oil from the torque tube to the transmission is often via a leaking pto drive shaft seal. The pto drive shaft passes through the center of the transmission hollow main drive shaft. The OD of the transmission main drive shaft is sealed from the torque tube oil in the front of the transmission case. The torque tube oil is in communication with the inside of the transmission hollow main drive shaft along with the pto drive shaft. The pto drive shaft seal seals the ID of the after end of transmission main drive shaft. Simply put the front of the transmission main drive shaft is sealed OD from the torque tube oil and at the ID at the back end in the differential section.

This an older tractor but is the same as the early 430 except there are some changes in pto shaft seal assembly & bearing in 1965 or maybe later so all the part nrs here may not apply to your 1965 430 but the basic configuration remains the same as these pics.

When you pull the cover directly under the seat this is what you see in the differential housing.

This is a view of the transmission internals.

This is the same view with just basically what we are concerned with. The pto drive shaft (not shown) passes through the center of the transmission hollow main drive shaft. The bushing is pressed into the ID of the transmission main drive shaft (later 430 has roller bearing here), the seal housing is pressed on the OD of the transmission main drive shaft, the seal is pressed into the seal housing and the pto shaft passes through the seal preventing the torque oil in the transmission hollow main drive shaft from leaking into the differential section thus the entire transmission.

This is what a conventional pto assembly looks like. The long drive shaft passes through the center of the transmission main drive shaft into a splined coupling that resides in the torque tube. You can see the location the seal & bearing on the pto shaft. To replace the pto shaft seal you need to unbolt the pto assembly and pull the drive shaft out as a unit.

Joe

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Sorry about the simplistic information I posted. I started this response earlier today and didn't know that you already had a handle on the fact the pto shaft passed through the center of the transmission main drive shaft. That seem to be the sticking point with most new guys. It would have saved me a lot of writing if I had refreshed the page and seen your 2nd post, my own fault.

Joe

 

[Tgrasher]

As Joe (Wa) has pointed out and done a great job of illustrating, the problem is your PTO shaft seal. The original seal is double lipped, facing opposite directions to keep the oil from transferring from either cavity. It is made from left over WW Ii tank metal, so be ready for a battle. lol As far as parts go, you'll need two seals for the shaft and a pto housing gasket. John Saeli (315-585-9826) can make sure you get the correct parts and has a ton of knowledge. When you endeavor to do the repair, ask this forum for tips/help as there are ways to make this repair easier.

 

[Cg19]

Thank you all. I knew the main leak by points and had an understanding of the parts of the trans/pto/rear, was just lost as to how the fluid would get past the seals. Knowing that the fluid fills the hollow input shaft answers all my wonders about that.

Thanks again!