I really need some 8N help!

[AnvilheadTX]

Man I think I screwed up.... I have been rewiring my 8N in the evenings this week. It has been running funky and I decided to get rid of the rat"s nest that came with the tractor.

Monday - compression check - all four excellent!
Tuesday - I unbolted the wire loom to repalce it. A gusher of anti-freeze came out. I drained my radiator halfway and the the gusher ceased when I then took the bolts out all the way. I discovered that one of the bolts was very short....not broken or anything, just short. It would not even thread back in? I went to the tractor place and got a longer bolt. I actually got two new bolts to hold the new wire loom down. The heads were smaller than the original, but the older gentleman who helped me said they would be fine. This guys works on 8ns.
Tonight - finishing reqiuring - she cranked on the first push of the button. Idled fine. Then dyed when I tried to put the throttle up. I figured - carb adjustment - since I repalced the carb as well. Then I realized fluid was easing out around the bolt heads of the wire loom and I could see that I was loosing compression through these holes. It gets worse...I then started hearing odd "squeaking noises" and quickly shut it down. I thought at one point I even heard a rush of air as in compression rushing out of the tractor before I could reach for the key and the engine turned a few times.

Could anti-freeze have gotten into the oil? I thought.....and yep, it sure seems to have. I drained the tractor and the oil was very thin and had that anti-freeze smell to it.

What have I done? Can I have a cracked block? If so, would the tractor idle at all? Did I screw up the head gasket? Will the anti-freeze screw up the sleeves or once it is drained am I fine? I am still very new to this stuff so I appreciate any sincere thoughts.

 

[souNdguy]

Antifreeze isn't kind to bearings.

But before you freak out.. lets see what all has happened.

I'm not sure what bolts you pulled? head bolts?

If you pulle dhead bolts and they are l;eaking, put some thread pucky on them.

Obviously change the oil.

if it was ? thin.. i'd check for gas in it.



I'd drain the radiator and flush it with plain water... save the mix in a bucket if it is new... refill with plain water in CASE you do have a leak into the block...Once you change the oil, pull the spark plugs. check them for coolant.

runt he starter over to expell anything that might be in the cyls.. reinstall the plugs.. check fore order 1-2-4-3

try starting her again.

see what you get.. post back

Soundguy

 

[AnvilheadTX]

YEs - head the two head bolts that hold the wire loom in place (1948 8N). I still have the loom on the tractor. The old timer told me that Ford bolts were all 11/16 and he gave me 5/8 (to replace with the one bolt that was too short. I did not use any thread sealant or anything like that when I screwed them back in.

 

[Ken(Ark)]

They are still a 7/16 bolt even though the heads are a different size , so thats OK .You need to put some teflon tape ( or pucky is good ) on the bolt threads and torque them down to specs , 65 to 70 ft lbs . If you tightened them the last time with a ratchet by hand , you probably didn't get them tight enough to seal the gasket. The odds are very slim that the head gasket is damaged , but you can do another compression check and find out for free.

 

[souNdguy]

Are these the bolts that hold the spark plug tube down that you are refering to?

In any case.. if you have head bolts leaking, pucky them up and reinstall.

Soundguy

 

[Paul in MN]

Anvil,

Fortunately these are pretty tough little engines with a lot of forgiveness built in.

Most of the head bolts are threaded right into the water jacket area of the block. Thus when the bolt comes out, so does the antifreeze. If everything is perfect, like the head gasket seal to the block and head, the AF should not get into the oil, but can gush out of the open bolt hole. This has been referred to many times by others on this board who have similar questions regarding sealing the headbolts. When reassembling an N engine, I always use studs and nuts instead of headbolts. The stud can be threaded into the block hole with a sealer like permatex #2, and the head torqued with the nut on the top of the stud.

Now to solving your problem: I would try some kind of thread sealer on the few head bolts that you took out. This can even be a good pipe dope (no teflon tape). You probably need to drain enough AF so the level is below the head bolt holes. Put the bolts back in and torque them to about 75 ft lb. Put AF (or temporarily, water) into the rad and engine and hope it doesn't leak. Small leaks can be fixed with Bars Leak or similar product added to the AF. Run the engine with clean oil and check for AF in the oil somewhat frequently. Best way to check the oil for AF is to loosen the engine oil drain plug (after tractor has sat overnight) and allow a small amount of oil to follow the threads of the drain plug and drip into a clean can or jar. AF always goes to the bottom of the oil and will come out first with its very bright green color. If you get no AF coming out with a few teaspoonfulls of oil, then you are safe to run it.

If you continue to get AF in the oil, you should replace the head gasket (less than $20), and maybe the head needs to be ground flat to make the head gasket seal properly.

Best of Luck in solving the leaks.

Paul in MN

 

[AnvilheadTX]

Yes - the spark plug wire tube - that one most people remove. I spent an hour threadign my new spark plug wires through it last night?

I was going to replace the tube with a better quality one - that is why I removed the two bolts. I only removed the two bolts....and did not touch any of the others.

Ken in Ark...I DID NOT torque - I simply did the ratchet job and called it good. Also, no teflon tape, pucky, putty, or anything that now all seems to make so much sense.

I am jsut a newby with a little 8N fever....but darn my new wires look good.

 

[Bob]

Make sure the new bolts bolts are the correct length and diameter.

Drain the coolant.

Clean the coolant out of the holes and off of the bolts with carb cleaner, followed by compressed air to be sure there's nothing left in the holes.

Put some of this stuff on the bolt threads, and torque them down.

<img src = "http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/410AF3967JL._AA280_.jpg">

Change the oil (CHEAP compared to guessing if there's any coolant in it).

Start the engine, warm it up, then re-torque ALL the headbolts.

 

[souNdguy]

Pull the bolts.. pucky them ( no tape ), reinstall, and torque. after warming it up.. retorque them.

I'd pull the plugs and change the oil / water as i mentioned in my previous post.. you don't want to further contaminate or hydrolock the engine.

If your comp is ok and no further leaks and oil pressure is good.. I'd say you doged the bullit. if the thing runs bad or get more water inthe oil.. spring for a head gasket.

Also.. get yourself a parts manual and familiarize yourself witht he diagrams. learn to understand the relationships int he parts you see.. IE.. bolts threading into 'wet' part of the block.. etc..

good luck!

soundguy

 

[AnvilheadTX]

Soundguy - I appreciate your advice - and I might add that I consulted your 8N new article about wiring/12 volt conversions when wading through the re-wire process. Wish I read about head bolts.

I use the IT manual - but every once in a while I "wing" it....like understanding the head bolts and the anti-freeze gusher. I thought I read that these were really NOT head bolts, but I am glad I messed with them since one was too short to even be threaded. I could not figure out what was on the head....bet it was pipe dope.

I have fully drained the oil now and half the radiator - I am short a bucket - however, the antifreeze that drained did not appear to be contaminated with oil.

I am draining the gas and will pull the metal asap and putty and torque the bolts to specs.

How can one test a tractor without the hassle of putting back the metal and the gas tank. Surely a device exists that is a minature gas tank the has a gas line into the carb? If not, someone should make a device like this. I would really like to figure this probelm out with the metal OFF!

On a final note....what could have been making the squeaking noise?

 

[souNdguy]

Most of us keep an old lawnmower 1g gas tank around for running without a hood.. just takes a little creative plumbing to get it to the carb.

If it were me.. untill I was sure I had leaks stopped.. i wouldn't put coolant inthe engine.. coolant is BAD for the bearings and will ruin them in short order.

squeaking?

If you are an optimist.. I'd guess it was some coolant ont he belt beginning to flash off and leaving the lube residue on the genny/waterpump belt making it slip.

If you are a pessimist.. I might be worried that my main and rod bearings were beginning to go!

soundguy

 

[AnvilheadTX]

I figured there had to be some type of contraption...just makes not sense - here i am still draining the gas tank.

I am an optimist. When the gusher occured - it went everywhere! Shoudl I replace the belt...heck I am spending enough on this awesome piece of history anyway.....

Pulled the spark plugs....confession....they were not nearly as tight as they could be (or should be).

I am learning.

I will take your full advice. Early tommorow evening I will refill the oil. I will change the filter and do the hole change. I will use the empty oil bottles to drain the rest of the fluid and refill radiator with water for now.

Everyones quick advice is very much appreciated. At the very least I learned alot this week and looks like I will know even more tommorow.

 

[souNdguy]

Belt should be ok.. wipe it down with a clean rag with alcohol on it.. or naptha.. ( not mineral spirits though ).. or even a couple shots of carb cleaner on a rag and a quick wipe. don't overdue the carb cleaner..etc.

Soundguy

 

[Britcheflee]

I cut a short piece of metal fuel line with the thread and male end and inserted that into a long piece of rubber tubing then used a turkey baster to suck up some fuel and inserted into the rubber end - it gradually fills up the carb and the tube holds enough gas for you to run for a few moments.
There was a great remote gas tank in the rafters of someones garage shown in a picture not long ago which would be the perfect set up.

I know the feeling of wanting to get everything back together and have the tractor running - however, take your time and make sure each thing you do is clean, tight and sealed as needed - I cant imagine much damage could be done to bearings in the short time you had it running - and you said you drained the oil - if this was done fairly soon after the event could it affect bearings? I am willing to bet that once you get everything back together properly it will run fine.

Lee

 

[gahorN]

Be very leery of machining the head to flatten it or true it. Very little clearance exists on these things and yours may have already had such work performed. Stories abound as to those who have machined their heads only to find that pistons and valves collide with the re-worked head.

 

[Bonnan]

I made one out of a 2 lb coffee can, mounted off the dash frame with the sediment bowl below. Have it mounted on my 2N right now. If I learnhow to post a pic I'll put it up tomorrow.
Bonnan