I want to make a comment on repair manuals.

[ncpapaul]

Whenever someone asks a simple, or not so simple, question, there is a standard quick reply to "buy a manual". We all need the manuals and the restoration quides I agree and have bought a stack. BUT a lot of times the mechanic's tricks and common knowledge to those old timers's inside information is NOT in the manuals. AND some of the manuals have very poor illustrations and photos. The years of experience are what is valuable here and thanks to all who contribute. AND in my case, my tractors are 11 miles from my house, work and computer. I like to study and read the manuals so frequently the manual is not where the tractor is. So sometimes I forget to take them back and forth and the manual or parts book winds up here at my office where I can see to read and be near the computer, so I can follow what the heck we are talking about here on the forum. Then when the books are back out with the tractors? You quessed it, I have to ask here and thanks to all who educate me. And for those who just read and would not dare to write: stay here and your skin gets thicker to the smart mouths and your heart gets bigger to the caring ones. Paul in Mississippi

 

[Ed Hotaling]

You have very eloquently said what I have often thought when some wiseguy makes that crack about buying a manual. Even the most detailed book is not 100% complete. Thank you.

 

[Ecnerwal]

Well, I for one bought the manuals (Ford/new holland's) and thought them a near-total rip-off. Price for content was terrible, and that was when they only set me back $200 - the same set is now running a list price over $700. Generally the manuals also do not have any useful insight to the most likely cause of a particular problem, or any practical way to attack it without a pile of "ford special service tools" that would cost more than my tractor, if they are even still made. So I find the info offered here to be far more useful, most of the time.

The fact that they were so cheap they didn't even update the manuals for the series of tractors the manuals are supposed to cover was particularly galling - interpolate a not-very-good picture of a tractor severals years prior to the tractors the manual set actually covers and try to figure out if it has anything to do with the tractor you have and bought the manual set for....

 

[showcrop]

But if a poor guy has no knowledge he can still offer advise by advising to get the manual. And then he can sleep better knowing that the has helped someone.

 

[Ultradog MN]

You make your point well and I agree. There are tips, tricks and knowledge here on this board that could fill a dozen manuals.
But I also see folks who just spent $4K on a tractor that wont spend an additional $30 on at least an I&T manual. I'll try to help them if I can. But if I know the answer is clearly spelled out in in my own I&T I'll also gently chide him to buy his own - for the answer to this question and many, many more.

 

[JMOR]

Well, Showcrop, that may be...........but if I don't have anything factual to offer, I tend to remain silent rather than post something useless or even worse, bad/incorrect advice. We all are different creatures & to each his own.
I didn't offer 'advice' here, so I guess didn't violate my own rule.

 

[RodinNS]

I'll agree that you can get a lot of info here that you don't find in the manuals in terms of experience... but at the same time, the OEM manuals are invaluable if you take the time to study them.
I&T manuals give some basic info and specs and not a lot else. OEM will generally give detailed description and operation sections so you can study the operating theory of how the system works. When you understand that, then you can effectively troubleshoot... and if you really get stumped then start firing questions here.
I can tell you... if my manual is 10 miles away and I need it... I go get it long before I'd ask here....

Rod

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 23:20:38 05/09/10) I'll agree that you can get a lot of info here that you don't find in the manuals in terms of experience... but at the same time, the OEM manuals are invaluable if you take the time to study them.
I&T manuals give some basic info and specs and not a lot else. OEM will generally give detailed description and operation sections so you can study the operating theory of how the system works. When you understand that, then you can effectively troubleshoot... and if you really get stumped then start firing questions here.
I can tell you... if my manual is 10 miles away and I need it... I go get it long before I'd ask here....

Rod

"OEM will generally give detailed description and operation sections so you can study the operating theory of how the system works. When you understand that, then you can effectively troubleshoot.."

Note that I'm in agreement with you, but...as a WAG, I would say that more often than not, the posters here just want a quick fix. They do not want to be bothered with "study the operating theory of how the system works. When you understand that..". A lot of us want to help them learn, understand and be more able next time to help themselves, but many just are not interested in that kind of depth. Most won't fess up to that, but you can tell by the questions & responses........most of those ought to just hire their work done.

 

[RodinNS]

Yes, there are a lot that would be better off hiring someone....
I find that most times there is not quick easy fix. You either learn it or you're going to spend a lot of money learning the hard way....

Rod

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 18:47:51 05/09/10) Well, I for one bought the manuals (Ford/new holland's) and thought them a near-total rip-off. Price for content was terrible, and that was when they only set me back $200 - the same set is now running a list price over $700. Generally the manuals also do not have any useful insight to the most likely cause of a particular problem, or any practical way to attack it without a pile of "ford special service tools" that would cost more than my tractor, if they are even still made. So I find the info offered here to be far more useful, most of the time.

The fact that they were so cheap they didn't even update the manuals for the series of tractors the manuals are supposed to cover was particularly galling - interpolate a not-very-good picture of a tractor severals years prior to the tractors the manual set actually covers and try to figure out if it has anything to do with the tractor you have and bought the manual set for....

Whoa! What tractor are you working on? Some of the later tractors are that sophisticated. However, one can buy a full set of OEM service manuals for most pre 65 Fords on eBay for less than $75.00 and go to CNH's website to look at parts schematics free of charge.

 

[ncpapaul]

Well Larry not all my tractors are gray and red. And I posted the same comments over on the green forum also. I have mixed brands but some of the same things apply no matter the color or age. Thanks, Paul

 

[ncpapaul]

Well Larry not all my tractors are gray and red or blue. And I posted the same comments over on the green forum also. I have mixed brands but some of the same things apply no matter the color or age. Thanks, Paul

 

[WayneB]

Paul,
Your comments mirror my thoughts when I read thru many type forums for assistance. Most who advise you to buy a shop manual really mean that when a question like this is asked, that perhaps a specialize mechanic doing the job is in order. Sure, told to get a manual, but there may be the implication that a question like this is over the posters head.
I do all my own work. Own a barn full the size of small fleets. I assure you, at times, I am over my head. Temporarily, until I find the procedure.
My frustration is, in the beginning I have a question. Truely don't know the answer. So many times I search and search, then ask the question, get a couple of seat of the pants responses, then find my own answer. It starts to look like I ask a question, then provide my own answer like a smart alleck.
I know all the things I have done before, and I am sure that everything I will ask for has been done at least once (when the manual was written), but getting a clue to that is difficult.
Forums favor clear writting skills and those who douse their writing with humility and wit. Many posters write how they talk, and at times that is hard to deciper.
I really try not to tell posters on this and many other forums I gain information from; GO GET A MANUAL. I have stacks and CD volumes of them, and the questions they don't answer are huge.
I can say this, because this is what I do for a living, at least part of my job. Manufacturers sell a piece of equipment to the military, and we go out and tear it down, part by part, and use soldiers to do the task. So many times, the way it is written, the tasks cannot be done. Remove the engine. No mention of special tools, common tools, lift, preconditions, follow on tasks. No better on Installations either.
I was not offended by your posting.

Wayne

 

[ncpapaul]

Very well written Wayne, thanks. I do not do this for a living, it's just a hobby and it seems like I get further over my head the older I get. I am 57 years old and have worked on a wide variety of vehicles and equipment all my life and written mechanical descriptions still puzzle me. A picture is worth way more than a thousand words to me. And I make my living (almost 40 years now) as a machinists and shop trainer and I am not the only one who struggles with "factory manuals". There are some that come with very high dollar equipment from overseas that are translated by non-english speakers! I try my best to not be a smart mouth and also not be a newbie rookie with elementary questions. I wonder sometimes if I am the only one who types it all out on WORD to spell check me before I post. And you are right about the small details of each disassembly/repair/reassembly, if they put in everything the manual would weigh 100 lbs. and cost $1000. Thanks, Paul

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 09:23:35 05/10/10) Paul,
Your comments mirror my thoughts when I read thru many type forums for assistance. Most who advise you to buy a shop manual really mean that when a question like this is asked, that perhaps a specialize mechanic doing the job is in order. Sure, told to get a manual, but there may be the implication that a question like this is over the posters head.
I do all my own work. Own a barn full the size of small fleets. I assure you, at times, I am over my head. Temporarily, until I find the procedure.
My frustration is, in the beginning I have a question. Truely don't know the answer. So many times I search and search, then ask the question, get a couple of seat of the pants responses, then find my own answer. It starts to look like I ask a question, then provide my own answer like a smart alleck.
I know all the things I have done before, and I am sure that everything I will ask for has been done at least once (when the manual was written), but getting a clue to that is difficult.
Forums favor clear writting skills and those who douse their writing with humility and wit. Many posters write how they talk, and at times that is hard to deciper.
I really try not to tell posters on this and many other forums I gain information from; GO GET A MANUAL. I have stacks and CD volumes of them, and the questions they don't answer are huge.
I can say this, because this is what I do for a living, at least part of my job. Manufacturers sell a piece of equipment to the military, and we go out and tear it down, part by part, and use soldiers to do the task. So many times, the way it is written, the tasks cannot be done. Remove the engine. No mention of special tools, common tools, lift, preconditions, follow on tasks. No better on Installations either.
I was not offended by your posting.

Wayne

ayneB, something it your response reminded me of myself a bit. Sometimes by the time I have worked my way through thinking about and writing my problem down with enough detail that I think the other fellow will understand my question, that process has made me see the light...answered my own question. It is amazing how often that happens.

 

[souNdguy]

I agree.

And while some of the manuals are a bit lacking.. there is still some info in them.

when i see someone asking for a part number.. knowing they can look it up online at CNH.. or int heir 19$ master parts catalog.. those are the ones you tell to get a manual.. and then give em the number anyway to get them out of their jamb.

soundguy

 

[CAROGATOR]

Often thought that if you couldn't help the poster, it was better to say nothing than to get smart mouthed with them. IMO

 

[Ultradog MN]

More than once I have seen questions asked about the steering gear on a tractor - how do you get the left and right sector gears "timed" correctly.
On page 10 of my FO-31 manual there is a simple diagram that shows how to do it. It's one of those cases where a picture is worth a thousand words. Just think about how long of a post you would have to write to explain that simple procedure to someone.

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 08:13:59 05/10/10) Well Larry not all my tractors are gray and red or blue. And I posted the same comments over on the green forum also. I have mixed brands but some of the same things apply no matter the color or age. Thanks, Paul

Not sure here what you're trying to say, Paul. The poster I replied to said he had to pay big bucks for OEM Ford manuals. What I'm saying is that I know there are sources for Ford 00 and 01 series OEM manuals that don't cost anywhere near what they do from NH and some other sources.

 

[ncpapaul]

I am saying yes buy the manuals and they don't have to be the tractor factory manuals that cost hundreds of dollars. The reprints and ITT ones work too. What I was saying was that there is a lot NOT in the manuals but in the heads of the old hands thru experience. You usually can tell when someone is asking questions that are right in the front of a manual, like how many quarts in the transmission or such. I was also saying sometimes the manuals aren't clear or use confusing terms or phrases. And sometimes the manuals are not where the tractor is, but where the owner is and the computer and the parts house where you go buy the stuff. Thanks, Paul

 

[Ecnerwal]

(quoted from post at 04:51:06 05/10/10)
Whoa! What tractor are you working on? Some of the later tractors are that sophisticated. However, one can buy a full set of OEM service manuals for most pre 65 Fords on eBay for less than $75.00 and go to CNH's website to look at parts schematics free of charge.

'69 & '74 4500 - manual set is 40340070 - look up the price yourself if you don't believe it. I didn't believe it when I saw what it had gone up to last fall.

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 09:00:48 05/11/10)

'69 & '74 4500 - manual set is 40340070 - look up the price yourself if you don't believe it. I didn't believe it when I saw what it had gone up to last fall.

Didn't say I didn't believe it. Said you could buy it cheaper than that elsewhere and still have factory Ford manual.

Take a look at this brand new one on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Ford-2000-3000-...p;pt=BI_Books_Manuals&hash=item45ef9bdcd0

Less than you were paying previously from CNH. It pays to shop around.

 

[daman]

Speaking of manuals i have some extra for a FORD,mostly loader and BH models if anyone is interested.

 

[RodinNS]

Try 40200050...
I'm not saying that the set you list isn't that much money... but I can't see a manual set for the thousand series tractors being 700 bucks.

In fact they list it online for $347.17 for the three book set. Still not cheap by any means, but if you need it, you need it.

Rod

 

[Dan G]

I have the "telephone book" style of repair manual for 4000 series, but it's basically photocopies....and the pics are psych blotter quality at best. I up until recently was borrowing the dealers binder book repair manual....but now theirs went missing.
Theirs was COLOR and the pics were great. Pics with 4 or 5 colors showing the fluid direction was soooo helpful, but now that option is done.

Granted, the manual I have is helpful, but then the parts diagram is just about as helpful.

Dan in PA