ignition conversion

[Lester Click]

Need information on converting. Have been told that old Ford Falcon distributor installation would allow for a remote mounted coil???? Any information???

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Converting what to what? N from 6v to 12v? EI? A little more info would allow better advice.
50 Tips

 

[Dell (WA)]

Lester.......who ever told you that don't know sh!t from shinola. The original Ford Falcon was a 6-cylinder engine and ALL N-Tractors are 4-cylinders. (except for the Funk conversions)

BESIDES the flathead N-Engine comes with 2-different distributors, the early 4-nipple frontmount with 1-terminal squarecan ignition coil; and later 8N 5-nipple sidemount with roundcan ignition coil.

Tell us about your problems and maybe we can help you better 'cuz we've been answering questions about ignitions for many years. .......respectfully, Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

 

[Lester Click]

I wasn't sure, just what someone had told him. he has an 8n front mount 6V, it burns the coil up pretty fast. Would converting to a 12V system make a difference?

 

[Dell (WA)]

Lester........the squarecan frontmount 4-nipple distributor needs the "infamous ballast resistor" mounted on the backside of the dashpanel under the ammeter. Otherwize you will BURN up yer squarecan ignition coil. Many un-informed shadetree mechanics when confronted by ignition problems, "by-pass" this weird bit of electrical esoterica with disasterious results to squarecan ignition coil.

The bottom terminal is the battery source to the weaksister ignition switch. The upper right terminal is ignition switch ON. The upper LEFT terminal goes to the top terminal of the squarecan ignition coil. Understand???

NO, converting to 12v system will NOT save yer squarecan ignition coil from melting. There are many reasons to convert to 12-volts but that ain't one of them.........respectfully, Dell a 12-volt advocate for the right reasons who knows 8-ways to convert to 12-volts and they all work the first time

 

[Bruce (VA)]

You've come to the right place to clear up any BS you have heard about N tractor repairs. Like Dell sez, it's burning up coils because someone bypassed the resistor to get it started, or the resistor is bad. He could convert it to 12v & then burn out $30 coils twice as fast. Replace/rewire the resistor in the circuit & it should work just fine.
50 Tips

 

[JMOR]

Bruce, I knew I had seen this topic before & found in archives.
I'm not vouching for anything here! Just found it.
Even IF there is anything to it, it certainly would not apply to his front mount!

Topic: ford distributors
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cjm in tx

01-27-2007 18:30:03
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has anyone ever heard of using a ford pinto distributor in a 1958 ford 8n? i decided to give my 8n a tune-up shortly after getting it. so i went down the the dealer to get a tune-up kit with a distributor cap. i did not take the old one with me. well, the new one did not fit the distributor. so i took the old one with me when i took the new one back. the parts guy at ford said that the old one was not off a ford tractor. he said to take it to an auto parts store and try to get them to match it. he said that sometimes when the distributor needed to be replaced, people would use a ford pinto distributor out of a junk yard, account they were cheaper. so i took it to the auto parts store and sure enough it matched a distributor cap out of a mercury bobcat. (mercury's verion of the pinto i guess). THE THING COST $25!!!!!! AND THE PIONTS AND CONDENSER WASN'T CHEAPER EITHER.
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i think in the future, it would be cheaper in the long run to buy a 8n distributor the next time i need a tune-up.
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anyone ever heard of this?
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cjm

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old

01-27-2007 18:56:47
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Re: ford distributors in reply to cjm in tx, 01-27-2007 18:30:03
Well first off there is and never was a 1958 8N ford. The last year the 8N was made was 1952, then they started building the Jubilee and then the NAA. So what do you have?? Maybe a 600 0r 601 series or an 800 or 801 series tractor or did you hit the wrong key when typeing this

* Hobby farm

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cjm in tx

01-27-2007 19:59:28
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Re: ford distributors in reply to old, 01-27-2007 18:56:47
yes, that is a typo. should be 1952 8n.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

And a Pinto is 4 cylinder & a Falcon is a 6 cylinder. I'd like to see the two distributors side by side.
50 Tips

 

[Bruce (VA)]

I don't think this will fit very well. Might need a little light sanding on the shaft. Hooking up the vacuum advance might be a little difficult as well.
Pinto Distributor Pic

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 12:46:15 05/12/08) I don't think this will fit very well. Might need a little light sanding on the shaft. Hooking up the vacuum advance might be a little difficult as well.
Pinto Distributor Pic

A little sanding indeed!

Once these things get started, then repeated, they seem hard to stop. I guess one just tries to lay it open whenever it surfaces.

 

[Lester Click]

I appreciate your help and apologize for my lack of knowledge. I am attempting to educate myself, so all info is welcome. I have learned that my dads is a 1948 8n. Can you tell me the difference between resistor assembly #ABNN12250A and resistor #8NE10306.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 08:58:54 05/13/08) I appreciate your help and apologize for my lack of knowledge. I am attempting to educate myself, so all info is welcome. I have learned that my dads is a 1948 8n. Can you tell me the difference between resistor assembly #ABNN12250A and resistor #8NE10306.

12250 is the one Dell posted picture of up above. It is std ballast for front mount, 6v, N tractors. It has a cold resistance of about 0.5 ohms and a hot resistance of about 2 to 3 times cold resistance.

the 10306 is often referred to as a '12v to 6v dropping resistor'. Sometimes the seller calls it a 0.5 ohm resistor, sometimes called 1.0 ohms.
If 0.5, then to drop from 12v to 6v would require 12 amps! Virtually no coil would survive that! If 1.0, then to drop from 12 to 6 would require 6AMPS, still awfully high for a coil. For this reason, I like to call it "just an additional resistor" that you can series with the original 12250, in order to reduce coil current in a 12v system, as opposed to a "12v to 6v dropping res".

 

[Lester Click]

I assume you are saying that it is better to have both, in series, if the it is a 12 volt system?

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 11:36:24 05/13/08) I assume you are saying that it is better to have both, in series, if the it is a 12 volt system?

I would say use the 12250 plus 'whatever additional resistance' is required to achieve 4 to 4.5AMPS thru YOUR coil, with the engine stopped, points closed and a fully charged battery. The reason I state it this way is that those coils are so variable, that you never know what you have, so one can't simply state, "use this resistor # *** or #**** plus #**%%*. Sometimes, 12250 plus 10306 will be fine, sometimes it won't.

Too much res(too little current)=weak, but possibly a running spark, but maybe not. Too little res(too much current)= strong spark, but maybe only for a little while until coil, points or both burn up.

You want it like the porridge.....just right.

 

[Lester Click]

To give you idea of what I have...the original 12250 is not present, there is a 10306(replaced about a year ago). I only get a reading of 1 to 2 on the down side??

 

[Lester Click]

To give you idea of what I have...the original 12250 is not present, there is a 10306(replaced about a year ago). I only get a reading of 1 to 2 on the down side??

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 12:06:37 05/13/08) To give you idea of what I have...the original 12250 is not present, there is a 10306(replaced about a year ago). I only get a reading of 1 to 2 on the down side??

I assume you mean a reading of 1 to 2 volts on down side of resistor. If that is the case, then that means 1 to 2 volts across the coil. If you happen to have an old original Ford coil, like the one that I have which is 0.5 ohms, then you would be running 2 to 4 AMPS. BUT, since the coils are such an unknown, you really need to measure current, not volts.

It does not add up anyway, because 12v batt, 0.5 to 1.0 10306 res and a coil up even as high as 2.5 ohms would yield 3.4 to 4AMPS AND if 4amps & a 2.5 ohm coil, then you would be measuring 10volts across coil (down side of resistor).

You are just going to have to measure current. Picture shows where to insert meter at either circled 'A' (set to read amperes).

 

[Lester Click]

I will take these readings when I get there this afternoon. Can you also tell me, if I convert to an electronic ignition...pluses vs. minuses?? what about the resistors??? Etc....?

 

[JMOR]

There are as many, maybe more, opinions on that as there are people.
Some swear by 'em, some sweat at 'em.

If you search the archives there are probably 100 postings related.

I kinda hate to start this. But........
for myself, I've successfully run the same points for as long as 15 years & still counting. For cost of electronic ign, one can buy an awful lot of points.
If either fails, any jake-leg can figure out points, but how many can pinpoint electronic ign failure? How long to get one or the other operational again?
Cost to repair/replace, damage done if accidentally rev polarity (batt install, jumper cables, etc.). Resistor, yes. Still gotta get current right. A mistake now will possibly mean coil & electronics up in smoke.

You know, most antique tractor owners don't run their tractor many hours per year.

But some say, they correctly installed one and have never been happier.

Whatever is your cup of tea.