ignition wiring

[Jacob Kramer]

I need a complete ignition wiring diagram for a 47 2N. It has been converted to 12v but I'm not sure if it was done properly. It is a positive ground system, but I was hoping to switch to a electronic ignition. They all say negative ground only. Any pointers would be appreciated.

 

[Bob]

There's about 7,243 ways to wire a 12-Volt conversion, depending upon what components you are using. Give us a CLUE, please!

Pertronix (AFAIK, the ONLY manufacturer of the front-mount EI kits) makes the kits in BOTH (+) and (-) ground versions.

I suggest you peruse the Pertonix website, get the model # of the kit you need, then give that information to the (obviously misinformed) supplier you are dealing with.
Pertronix

 

[souNdguy]

give more details on this p-ground 12v system. is it with a converted generator? or a specialty p-ground alternator?

I don't think there are any 12v+grnd kits for the front mount.. etc..

Soundguy

 

[Bob]

SORRY!

I was ASSUMING you were looking for a 6-Volt (+) ground EI, for some reason thinking you were abandoning the 12-Volt conversion.

After reading Soundguy's post, I realize you apparently meant a 12-Volt front-mount EI kit.

SO MUCH FOR "ASSUMING"! (AND "putting foot in mouth"!)

Part Number Description
1247-Ignitor kit, Ford front mount distributor, 12 volt NEG ground

1247P6-Ignitor kit, Ford front mount distributor, 6 volt POS ground

1247XT-Ignitor kit, with canister coil, coil wire and hardware for conversion to external coil, 12 volt NEG ground

1247XTP6-Ignitor kit, with canister coil, coil wire and hardware for-conversion to external coil, 6 volt POS ground

 

[Jacob Kramer]

It has a old style GM alternator that has a wire hooked to the batt. terminal. Wire goes from alt to + side of ampmeter. No wires are hooked to 1 and 2 terminals on alt. From - side of ampmeter wire goes to square resistor block on common post. 2 other wires on common post, 1 goes to another resistor that then goes to the coil and the other wire goes to key switch. Other side of key switch goes to left side of square resistor block. Right side of resistor block wire goes to left post on solenoid. Other wire on left side of solenoid goes to neg of battery. Right side of solenoid goes to starter. Positive of battery goes to ground. Ultimately, I would like a negative ground 12 volt system with a electronic ignition. Please let me know what else to provide for information. Thanks

 

[Bob]

I don't know of a COMPLETE 12-Volt conversion diagram complete with EI that's been posted.

Is your alternator an internally-regulated Delco 10SI like the one in the bottom photo?

This 8N diagram is pretty close, except you have a manually-operated starter switch instead of the 8N's solenoid.

<img src = "http://web.archive.org/web/20010202143400/http://nseries.com/12Vwire.gif">

For the electronic ignition, I suggest getting the Pertronix with the round-can coil conversion, all set up for 12-Volts. Getting that kit, with the correct round-can coil should eliminate the need for ANY resistors in the primary ignition circuit. The instructions with the kit will bridge the gap between the diagram above, and where you need to be with the EI all wired up.

If you don't want an "idiot light", a diode will serve as a direct replacement.

<img src = "http://ndtc3500.stellarnet.com/~blweltin/Bob/AlternatorHarness3.jpg">

 

[souNdguy]

Bob.. sure sounds like this guy has an alternator that is connected up as positive ground, if he's following his wires correctly.

I wonder if he could have a mispolarized battery?

sounds like time for a vom!

Soundguy

 

[souNdguy]

Bob.. sure sounds like this guy has an alternator that is connected up as positive ground, if he's following his wires correctly.

I wonder if he could have a mispolarized battery?

sounds like time for a vom!

Soundguy

 

[Jacob Kramer]

Mispolarized battery? I definately have a positive ground. Once I get the EI installed is there anything I have to do to the starter or solenoid to switch to negative ground.

 

[Jacob Kramer]

I believe my alt. is identical to one in picture. Is S1 the key switch? Do I have to side marker light in the P1 wire? Also I just replied to soundguy and was wondering about switching to negative ground. Thanks

 

[souNdguy]

Re-read my post carefully... I'm refering to the possibility that the battery is charged backwards. ( I'm not saying that you can't read a +/- sign molded in on the battery top ).

Before i did anything else.. i'd throw a vom on it and verify polarity.

If you do change to negative ground, you won't have to mess with the starter or solenoid.. however, you will have to ditch that positive ground alternator and get a negative ground alternator...

soundguy

 

[Jacob Kramer]

When I seen vom I didn't know what you were refering to in your previous post. I will put my volt ohm meter on it and let you know. How do I verify my alt. is positive ground? It looks like a 70's GM unit. You help is appreciated as always.

 

[souNdguy]

Bottom line.. you say your 12v battery is hooked up with the positive cable on the ground right? I believe that is what you said in your first message. In later messages it looks like you said the charge wire fromt he alternator is hitting the negative wire for the battery/ charging system.

IF so, 1 of 2 things..either you have a p-ground alternator.. or the battery is charged backwards and is really still negative ground with a defective battery.

soundguy

 

[souNdguy]

Yes.. your message says that the alt is indirectly hooked to the neg side of the battery.. that's the issue.

soundguy

 

[Jacob Kramer]

The battery is not mispolarized. I check with a vom. And the Alternator says right on it that it is a negative ground. However, when I got the tractor the positive terminal from the battery is hooked directly to ground. Maybe alt was always hooked up wrong. I just want to do it right. Currently I am not getting fire to the plugs. So I want to convert to a negative ground and a Electronic Ignition. Thanks

 

[souNdguy]

This will be my -very- last post on this thread. past that, some one else can take up the torch helping you.

Here are the FACTS:

IF the alternator is INDEED a regular negative ground delco alternator.. and it is hooked up into the charging system as it should be, AND, if the battery is installed with the positive cable to ground, then there are only a few possible outcomes:

1, The alternator is fried because it is hooked up backwards!.. It only takes about a second to fry an alternator like this.

2, the alternator has been rebuilt as positive ground, and the rebuilder didn't remove the old sticker saying it was negative ground.

I'm going to 'guess' that the spark issue may have something to do with the mish-mash of wireing and the high current spike that may have happened when all that hardware was hooked up backwards.

Good luck.. you will need it.

That's the last time I'm stating these facts.

Soundguy

 

[8N1949]

Jacob, It's time to "change".. Rip out (off) the old 6 volts system.. You're going to go 12 volts Electronic Ignition system. Clean sweep....Pronto!

Remove the Generator, box Coil, Distributor, Voltage Regulator, Ammeter, Terminal Block, Resistance Block, all the wiring from the distributor back to the gages. Yes, the Alternator you now have.

Order the 12 volts Electronic Ignition system from the sponsors here, or call Andy... Here's what you will get for your money...

A new 12 volt A255 Delco 10SI (GM) Alternator, New .625 Pulley (Installed), mounting Bracket kit, New 12 volt wiring kit, Datcon 12 volt Voltmeter, 12 volt HVX canister Coil., and most important the 12 volt Conversion Kit (which replaces the ignition points, condenser.
You will get instructions on how to hook all these items up, and you will tanks me for it..

 

[Jacob Kramer]

I ripped out all wiring except solenoid. I replaced ignition with 1247xt and rewired everything according to Bob diagram. Everything works great now it is converted to 12 volt negative ground with electronic ignition. However I reused the battery and alternator that was either mispolarized for fired and they both work fine. Thanks for you help.

 

[Phil (NJ,Az,Sask)]

(quoted from post at 05:20:28 10/08/07) This will be my -very- last post on this thread. past that, some one else can take up the torch helping you.

I'm going to 'guess' that the spark issue may have something to do with the mish-mash of wireing and the high current spike that may have happened when all that hardware was hooked up backwards.

You got that NAILED! This problem is a clear example of all those mismashed Conversions that could have been simply corrected/rewired for (less than)$10, but now has a $200. solution that if not wired correctly will become a Money tree.

JMHO